Please Help w/Age & Tribe of Native American Doll.

Material: leather, horse-hair, beads and face hand-drawn.

Size: 14 x 9 in.

Thank you!

 

A recent souvenir item, depicting a generalized idea of a plains Indian doll. Really nothing "authentic" about it that can be connected with any specific tribe.

 

I agree that it's recent, but I don't think it was intended as a souvenir. There was a craze with southwestern design in the late 1980s 1990s when folks made all kinds of Native influenced tschotskes, drums, dream catchers, etc, to go in their terra cotta and turquoise painted rooms.

I think this is suppose to be a ghost dance doll. It looks home/craft made and the maker may have recycled her old hippy beads and someone's loom work.

Wouldn't it look darling next to a rusty metal silhouette of a howling coyote?

 

Beadwork is generally not associated with ghost dance shirts...the designs are painted symbols, and a belt isn't part of it at all. Nor are beaded headbands. And ghost dance items are not something a tribal member would be producing, as they tend to be in the "culturally sensitive" area.

The use of plastic beads, and the whole way this is put together, even looks like it could have been a kit project, although I haven't seen this particular type of "doll" before. But I'd agree, basically a souvenir or decorator item, not Native American.

 

Lilfont, thanks for your reply and thoughts on this item. It is hand-made and you are more than welcome to have it if you wish? It will go perfect with that room.

@ Taupou, thanks so much for taking the time out to view and share your thoughts on this item and the Northwest Coast-style painting I have posted within this category. Thank you!

Taupou, I was hoping maybe you can please help me with another item? It's not NA, and to be totally honest, I'm not sure what it may be,...age, origin.....nothing! After a couple months of research, this http://www.artcurial.com/en/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=2352 147 &refno=10451422 is the only other somewhat similar item I could find where the head acts as a cover for the vessel. The materials used looks very similar as well as the brownish-black slip decoration. Can you please help?

Here's the item...

 

My first thought was that this isn't a type of pottery I'm familiar with, although it vaguely resembles some Mexican and Costa Rican effigy vessels I've seen. Then this morning, while looking for some background information about Chihuahuas (of all things!), for a friend who just adopted a little dog, I ran across this web site about dog effigy bottles, ca. 1350 AD, found in the Bull Creek site in Georgia:
http://lostworlds.org/ancient-chihuahuas-roamed-eaten-southeastern-u-s/

If you scroll about half-way down the page you'll see a little footed effigy jar, identified as possibly depicting a Chihuahua. Although it isn't the exact form, what struck me was the painted design pattern, which is very similar. The article also references similar vessels from Mexico, and the possible influence of Colima, Mayan, and Casas Grandes cultures. It seems like a very good possibility that this might be the direction to research. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to do so right now, but will return to it as soon as possible. I haven't even checked any of my reference books. But in the meantime, maybe you might want to check it out.

 

OMG! Taupou, you nailed it!!! You are soooooo awesome! Thank you!

I swear I'm not making this up...

My in-laws live in the city/county where these 4 known examples are held within the museum's collection. We were just down there this past holiday (Thanksgiving)visiting. Also, when the item was purchased, this is the state (GA.) in which it came out of. The seller knew nothing about the item other than it was in their family as long as they can remember and asked me after purchasing......."what is it?". I told him I have no idea, but for whatever reason/s, the item spoke to me. I had a feeling it might be something very good, but to be honest, I wasn't sure but held-on to it any way.

The swirl pattern on my piece is very similar to the ones found within that article. I need to keep digging and see what else I can find, but I believe you nailed it, Taupou! Thank you so much!

 

Taupou,

From my research so far, if I'm not mistaken, the item is a 'Mississippian Culture (ca. 800 - 1500 CE)' effigy bottle or jar in the form of a "mace", with doghead cover ????

The "swirl" pattern appears to be a common design found painted on many pieces of pottery from that culture and era.

I'll keep digging in hopes of finding another exact or similar example.

 

I think you're right! Glad I could help...the image has been on my mind since I first saw your post on the old eBay board. I can understand how the item "spoke" to you, it had the same effect on me, just from the photo.

 

A thousand times thank you, Taupou!

You have no idea how many man-hours we spent striving to ID this thing since obtained. Again, thank you so much for your time and help.

Do you think we should contact the Columbus Museum and have them take a look at it? Or what museum or institution do you recommend we take such a piece to have them authenticate it?

 

Wow, very cool piece - what a great find nuff
Tapou you are amazing!
Mary

 

You need to find a museum or institution that specializes in Mississippian Culture and archaeology. One possibility might be to contact the Southeast Archaeology Center, which is connected with the management of the cultural resources and archaeology for the National Park Service. If they don't offer authentication services for individuals, they may be able to recommend where you could go for help. Here's a link to their contact information: http://www.nps.gov/seac/about/contactus.htm

 

Thanks, Taupou!

We were able to contact a museum and curator exp in NA arts. Images were sent and they'll hopefully be getting back to us soon. Will update when they reply.

Thanks again for your time and help.

 

Taupou,

Here's another (IMO) interesting piece I was hoping to get your thoughts on.

It appears to be a piece of very weathered carved stone in the form of a human head(?). Maybe the severed head of an effigy pipe similar to the one seen in the last image below? The item is probably nothing, but thought to run it by you before we got rid of it. Your thoughts, if any?

Size approx: 1-3/4 in.

Thank you!

 

This is one of the reasons I am loving this board.!!! Love to read all the posts and learn so much....!!!

 

Hi Taupou,

I assume you have no thoughts regarding the carved stone above? No biggy. Thank you any way.

We received the reply back from the curator and archaeologist. Here's their exact thoughts:

"Without seeing it in person, my gut reaction is a modern interpretation of an effigy bowl. I’ve seen that shape to a vessel, but the line that forms the mouth is deep and crude, not like a carefully incised line I would expect on an effigy vessel. Also not sure about the separate top, most effigy vessels I've seen incorporate an animal form into the body or neck of the vessel, not a separate piece like that. The brindle/ zebra pattern of the black slip or other treatment is definitely something I have never seen on a real Indian pot.

My 2 cents as a generalist in southeastern archaeology. It may still have value as an antique, but I don't think it is an artifact.

What he said is very similar to my initial reaction: I think this is a 20th-century object inspired by Mississippian-era effigy pottery. Some of the markings on the bottom almost look like there might have been a label there with the name of the maker or something similar. In the 1950s and ‘60s, it was quite common to find effigy objects being labeled as “Made by [name] Indians” in tourist shops".

A little disappointed, but not really. One learns to accept the good and bad in this field and moves on. Thanks again for taking the time out to reply and help.

 

Sorry, I missed those last photos. I've been distracted by the outside world for the last couple weeks, and just managed to briefly check for new threads. But no, I really don't think I have any thoughts on that last item. I'm not really sure what I'm seeing. Is it really a stone, with a hole carved out in the bottom?

As to the effigy figure, remember this sometimes isn't an exact science. There may be someone with a more specific interest in, or knowledge about, it. I think you narrowed down the culture at least, if not the date or authenticity. I wouldn't give up on it, based on only one (or two) opinions.

As someone who doesn't deal with prehistoric items at all, I can say that it may actually be better if it is not proven to be Mississippian era. If it is not a replica of a real piece, it wouldn't be considered a "fake," and can stand on its own as an art object. You may be able to find out if there was a potter who was known for making this type of pottery inspired by, or in the style of, ancient pottery. This took considerable skill and craftsmanship to create, and was done by an accomplished potter, who probably made other similar pieces. At least in terms of Southwest Pueblo pottery, which is more my area, prehistoric pieces often aren't as desirable as some pots made in the 19th or 20th century. Older isn't necessarily better in a lot of cases.

 

Thanks so much, Taupou! I really do much appreciate you and your help. Thank you!

What's quoted above is exactly what a ceramics specialist said at an auction house we deal with. She's no specialist in NA art, only Asian wares and those were her thoughts as well. She didn't believe the piece was ancient, but probably 19th to early-20th C. We're going to keep digging and see what turns up. Hopefully something!