Featured Royal Vienna A. B. K. red stamped platter pottery dish Help ID maker

Discussion in 'Pottery, Glass, and Porcelain' started by Mugzinnys, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. Mugzinnys

    Mugzinnys Well-Known Member

    approximately 11 X 7 I though it was a little pricey, but when I got home I had second thoughts. The portrait painted on some of them are very pricey. these are plain compared to some I googled. I might try to get 20190313_185836.jpg 20190313_185846.jpg 20190313_185849.jpg 20190313_185853.jpg 20190313_185904.jpg 20190313_185909.jpg them if they are not gone tomorrow. Would love to hear your opinion?

    There are 2 matching trays at 15 each. The other thing that swayed me from getting them was that the backs looked, practically brand new. I though that was a little strange and the front looked fresh, like brand new.
    Mervin
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
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  2. clutteredcloset49

    clutteredcloset49 Well-Known Member

  3. Mugzinnys

    Mugzinnys Well-Known Member

    Thanks clutteredcloset49, I was so tired when I got home last night. Did some minor googling and went to sleep.
    These 2 trays are very pretty but I agree with you and thanks for the link. I want be running downtown this morning in pursuit of them at that price. They are nice but not Royal Vienna category of Nice
     
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  4. dgbjwc

    dgbjwc Well-Known Member

    Go back and get them if they're still there! RS Prussia! That's one of their trade names. Very rare. Stop reading and go back and get them now!
    Don
     
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  5. dgbjwc

    dgbjwc Well-Known Member

  6. clutteredcloset49

    clutteredcloset49 Well-Known Member

    @dgbjwc
    I don't know a lot about RS Prussia.
    The RS Prussia marks with Royal Vienna all have a crown and are done in gold. I'm not finding anything with A. K. B. Royal Vienna or anything done in red.
     
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  7. clutteredcloset49

    clutteredcloset49 Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]

    The OP's is heavy looking, colors look wrong (but could be my monitor). Flowers are different, as is the nose. Hair on your example reaches the edge, OP's doesn't. Beading is different.
    I'm not convinced, but I'm not an expert either.

    upload_2019-3-14_14-42-53.png upload_2019-3-14_14-41-57.png
     
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  8. dgbjwc

    dgbjwc Well-Known Member

    I'm also basing it on Leland & Carol Marple's "RS Prussia The Art Nouveau Years" pg. 97, plates 406, 407, and 408. Plate 407 is in the OP's color scheme. On pg. 87 the Marples note that "But the Hidden Image pattern was one of the most extensive lines ever produced and we suspect it met with such demand that product quality was temporarily compromised." I would assume this would also lead to minor mold discrepancies. The edges are quite delicate and it's likely RS Prussia simplified the mold a bit to improve survival at least until sold. All the examples in the book do show the hair as it appears in the liveauctioneers example.

    Admittedly the OP's mark has not been found previously on Hidden Image pieces. However, RS Prussia did use Royal Vienna trademarks and other RS Prussia pieces with the OP's mark can be found. Book values (for what they are worth) for Plate 407 is $1300-$1800. Seems worth taking a chance at $14.99. RS Prussia reproduction marks are normally found on molds that RS Prussia didn't produces so it's unlikely the OP's trays are not the real item. They may be late examples (approximately 1905) though. The RS Prussia Facebook page could confirm whether these trays are genuine.
    Don
     
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  9. clutteredcloset49

    clutteredcloset49 Well-Known Member

    @dgbjwc
    Thank you.

    Now I feel bad for advising Mugzi not to go back.
     
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  10. dgbjwc

    dgbjwc Well-Known Member

    Don't beat yourself up. They will still be there or they won't. It's unlikely you could have known and all your points regarding the discrepancies are valid. Even for RS Prussia folks this an unusual and a bit of an obscure area. It took a long time and the research of the Marples to even establish the connection between this line and RS Prussia. In the 15 or so years I've been collecting I've only seen maybe two examples of this pattern - one at an auction and one in the wild. If I had come across these trays at a thrift store there's a very good chance I would have hyper-ventilated.:dead: And it's not even one of my favorite patterns!
    Don
     
  11. Mugzinnys

    Mugzinnys Well-Known Member

    Don't feel bad cc49 I went back a hour ago and got them after waking up and seeing Don's message. I was shocked that they were still there. That a long long story it like it was a gift meant only for me from someone I recently lost. one of them did acquire a chip during the daily handling.
    But it a pair of them aint that something.

    Thanks Clutteredcloset49 and dgbjwc
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  12. Mugzinnys

    Mugzinnys Well-Known Member

  13. Mugzinnys

    Mugzinnys Well-Known Member

    What is the ABK stand for?

    I did not know to search R. S. Prussia for a Royal Vienna Tray. Like most when searching under Royal Vienna all I got was mostly info on fake RV. and there is a separate category at the big R for Chinese Royal Vienna This mark did not have the crown included which further added to the doubt that the trays were perhaps not authentic Royal Vienna, let alone a mark by R S Prussia? Live and learn, Most of us don't have books on every subject.
    Then add to this the fact that these trays show no signs of wear or dirt on the base. They actually look brand New fresh out of a modern day Chinese Factory and they sure had me perplexed. The Chinese are so good at reproducing heirloom from the pass.

    We at Antiquers.com are fortunate the have members with vast amounts of knowledge and resources on porcelain subjects. Some of them are older than the internet, at a time when most research was done using books and conversation with experts who specialize in certain areas by mail or phone and sending picture through the mail, long before the internet came into existence. We have people here that have written books on different porcelain subjects.

    Sometimes you have to go back to the basics, and dig out a book. The internet sometime have lots of information but not the information that you need to get the answer you need.

    You will find more knowledge here than on all the internet on certain subjects. and people who enjoy sharing their knowledge with you.

    One of my favorite members and go to person is Clutteredcloset49 she has enlighten me on hundred of occasion with her vast knowledge in pottery.

    I Love This Place
    Thanks Everyone
     
  14. cxgirl

    cxgirl Well-Known Member

    nice pieces Mugzinnys:)
    I would never have thought RSPrussia on these, thanks for the information on the mark Don:)
    I thought the same as you cluttered:)
    here is the RSPrussia Oct 2007 newsletter, scroll about 1/2 way down to the article by Allen Marcus. He talks about the different marks and mentions a Royal Vienna Crown Mark with AKB, there is an example on the left hand side of the page
    http://rsprussia.com/images/OCTOBER 2007 RSP NEWSLETTER.pdf
    might be worth running them by the Facebook group to see what they think:)
     
  15. clutteredcloset49

    clutteredcloset49 Well-Known Member

    upload_2019-3-15_8-35-56.png

    This is a much better picture than your first one and shows better detail.
    I'm sorry, I misinformed you.

    I have learned so much from the old ebay board and this board. Many of the same members are here with so much more specific knowledge than myself. I am not specialized in any one area. I'm the person who knows a lot about everything, but nothing about anything.

    @Mugzinnys
    Your kind words meant a lot. Thank you.
     
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  16. dgbjwc

    dgbjwc Well-Known Member

    I'm so glad you were able to purchase these, Mugzinnys. The market in RS Prussia crashed, along with so many other markets, in the last recession. But it's hard enough to find items to sell for a profit and if the liveauctioneers amount is any indication they should do well enough. Although the chip on the one dish is unsightly a professional could repair it easily. I would have it repaired before attempting to sell.

    We may never know what the ABK stands for. My understanding is that RS Prussia used different backstamps for each of their distributors. You can find two of the exact same molds with different backstamps if the pieces were sold through two different distributors. The ABK may have been the initials of a distributor whose name has been forgotten over time and through a lack of records.

    I am rather like cluttered in that I am not specialized in one particular area. I have small collections of many different things and I tried to get at least one book in each of the areas I was interested in. In time I was able to build a small library. While the values in most of them are woefully outdated the books are still useful for identification purposes. And it's a good time to buy these outdated books as many are quite cheap.

    We are indeed fortunate to have so many talented and kind people here on antiquers.com. And our moderators are owed thanks for creating and maintaining such a respectful and safe space. I'm very thankful on those occasions when I can contribute meaningful information.
    Don
     
  17. cxgirl

    cxgirl Well-Known Member

    cluttered and Don, you are both very knowledgeable and so always helpful:) I always love to read your posts as you take the time to explain why you feel it could or couldn't be a certain company/piece, this thread is a great example:)
     
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  18. clutteredcloset49

    clutteredcloset49 Well-Known Member

    @cxgirl
    Thank you, that's very kind of you to say and nice to hear.
     
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  19. Mugzinnys

    Mugzinnys Well-Known Member

    commonly known as RS Prussian hidden image bowl or tray
     
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  20. Mugzinnys

    Mugzinnys Well-Known Member

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