Featured Russian Silver Goblet..need identification pls

Discussion in 'Silver' started by jollyrancher, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

    Hi all, I am supremely untalented in deciphering silver marks. I know enough to know that these marks are Russian, but does anyone know the maker and date? I sure would appreciate it if someone familiar with these marks could help. gob1.JPG gob5.JPG gob6.JPG gob7.JPG
    Thanks!
     
  2. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    From the left, the first square is the maker's mark, the next punch is the assayer's mark over the year of assay, the 84 is the quality mark and the last punch is the city mark.

    I could not find the maker on the 925 site. The assayer was Andrey Antonovich Kovalsky (who was registered in Moscow) and the date of 1853 fits with his working dates. The 84 is for 84 zolotniki which equates to silver fineness of .875. The city mark is for Moscow.

    The maker not being on the Cyrillic alphabet list on the 925 site is not a huge surprise since they don't necessarily have them all, but it is an open question.

    Your piece looks like it used to have a handle.
     
  3. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Very beautiful, jolly.
    If you translate the maker's mark in Latin script it would be IR. Or JR for some German and Scandinavian silversmiths in Russia.
    The only IR I can find is an I. Radinovich, but can't find any information on when or where Radinovich worked. Maybe someone else knows?
    Yes, the handle is missing.
     
  4. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

  5. MrNate

    MrNate Well-Known Member

  6. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    Any Jewelry and judy like this.
  7. KC Antique

    KC Antique New Member

    Cyrillic letter ИР is the Touch Mark used by Ivan Raspopov in Russia but he wasn't recorded in 1853 but later in 1883. However, there are many that would use the same maker's mark depending on the region of Russia and the loosely controlled system of order during that time. I have personally purchased pieces in Russia that were beautifully crafted but not marked well or not marked at all.
     
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  8. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    The challenge, as KC has alluded to, is finding ИР in Moscow in 1853, not just any maker using those initials in some other place 30 years later.
     
  9. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Is this the KC i know from another forum?
     
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  10. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    It is. But a Moscow maker in 1883 could have been manufacturing in 1853. Until we have proof he was, we can't say for sure.
    This one MrNate found is in Moscow, an I. Romanov. Even later, in 1889, but we don't know if he was or wasn't there in 1853:
     
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  11. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    That's what I get for reading and posting an hour after my normal bedtime. I read the 925 thread first and then missed the marking on the other. :oops:

    I'm still a bit skeptical of such a wide range of dates, but you're right that it's not impossible.
     
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  12. KC Antique

    KC Antique New Member

    James Conrad....yes it is! :) You caught me! Grasshopper got me lookig at this site! Me and my addiction to silver (as well as other antiques)! Great seeing you on here (you were up in the wee hours!)
    I would have a picture and more information put in on my profile but cannot get the confirmation email for my account (even though I have re-requested it too many times than I care to admit) and have also sent a couple of messages to the administration and haven't heard back. In the meantime - am still enjoying this site and the long-timers/members with their vast knowledge!
     
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  13. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    @daveydempsey Hopefully, calling Davey to your rescue will help resolve the issue, KC.
     
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  14. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    OH Me! Oh My! you have jumped the reservation! I AM TELLIN!

    Check your spam folder, confirmation email is probably there
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
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  15. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    I say you will like it here, A LOT more traffic although kinda pitiful furniture wise :sour:
    Nobody collects old furniture anymore but I'd guess silver is jumpin by comparison, and JEWELRY, lotta jewelry freaks here.:angelic:
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
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  16. KC Antique

    KC Antique New Member

    Whoops forgot to totally agree with Bakersgma that proof has to be shown that they were producing silver in the said year. For example - the Ivan Raspopov that has the Makers Mark in Moscow in 1883 could have been a young child in 1853 or old enough to work under the tutelage of an elder in the business (Nikifor Raspopov). ALSO thank you for directing me to daveydempsey. Mighty grateful for your help!
    James, I have checked the spam folder, inbox, bread box, etc...no confirmation email! :( But I have faith it will be resolved...just hope I can keep posting until that time! :) And, no...don't buy it. There are plenty of people that collect "old furniture" (as you put it)...they may just be lower numbers and not on forums like us!
     
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  17. KC Antique

    KC Antique New Member

     
  18. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Hmmmm, well davey will fix it, no worries! KC, you are a nite owl girl! you realize it's 1:43 a.m. EST? which is the only time that counts! And, the only reason i am up is it's my bday, i am usually up by 5 a.m. but that may not happen today!
    BTW, i am still TELLIN MART!
     
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  19. gregsglass

    gregsglass Well-Known Member

    Hi,
    Happy Birthday James!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    greg
     
  20. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    THANKS!
     
    judy likes this.
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