Unknown Signature Marks - Blue and White Saucers (Any tips?)

Discussion in 'Pottery, Glass, and Porcelain' started by northbeach, Mar 16, 2019 at 2:26 PM.

  1. northbeach

    northbeach New Member

    Screen Shot 2019-03-16 at 11.20.48 AM.png Screen Shot 2019-03-16 at 11.20.12 AM.png Dear Friends:
    We have a lovely set of blue and white saucers and cups with different signatures, and wonder if anyone here will be able to give us tips on how to identify these marks? The painting is beautifully executed and the items have a grey hue. These came from an estate but we don't know much about them. Is the one "X" with the "dot" letters or two crossed swords? Thank you for any tips that you may have. Antiques always hold many secrets and studying and researching them is a fun adventure -- and great way to learn about history.
    Have a great day! C.M.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 3:16 PM
  2. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    & it's more fun with bigger photo's !!! :hilarious::hilarious:

    upload_2019-3-16_14-50-27.png
     
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  3. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

  4. northbeach

    northbeach New Member

    Thank you. I am not sure why the full sized photos did not load. Have a great day. C.M.
     
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  5. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    because u did not click on FULL IMAGE...;)
     
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  6. northbeach

    northbeach New Member

    Voila! Thanks for the tip. :)
     
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  7. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly The worst prison is a closed heart

  8. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly The worst prison is a closed heart

    Oh my, forgot to say Welcome!
     
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  9. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    Good find, SiS! I knew they looked Dutch but had no idea where to look for the marks.
     
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  10. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly The worst prison is a closed heart

    (I have some old Makkum pottery so it wasn't much of a stretch:D)
     
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  11. northbeach

    northbeach New Member

    Thank you so much, very helpful! I had sent a note to their factory (they are still open) about the saucers a few days ago, and the link does show the marks as you noted. The dates are still a bit of a mystery as they seem to be much older than noted at the site. The first two saucers I posted appear to be primitive porcelain with chips of (glass?) in them and have very fine painting (but I am not an expert). I also have a few of these (shown below) with different marks and simpler painting styles (not as fine). They seem to be more traditional Delftware with an opaque glaze, and they are much whiter and heavier than the first two examples posted. Do you recognize this mark? Thank you again for your help! C.M. LI-MARK-WHITE.jpg FI.jpg
     
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  12. northbeach

    northbeach New Member

    The plate colors are pretty accurate but the mark "FL" or "FI" is not this blue but lighter.
     
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  13. i need help

    i need help Well-Known Member

    Welcome to the Forum, Northbeach! :)
    Thanks for showing these, very nice! I can’t offer any help, just to say Welcome! :)
     
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  14. northbeach

    northbeach New Member

    IF-CUP.jpg And I have a few cups with this mark (this image is much, much, much too blue, the real mark is pale blue) which is shown on that site as 19th century. But the cups seem much newer than the first two saucers with the crossed swords and the "JJ" [Update: probably JT] symbols. The cups also have the opaque white glaze and are not grayish in tone. They appear to be traditional Delftware as they are heavier than the first saucers I posted (that may be primitive porcelain). Not sure if I have this mark upside down or not.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 9:40 PM
  15. northbeach

    northbeach New Member

  16. northbeach

    northbeach New Member

    Royal Tichelaar Makkum:

    1572: Makkum clay in the business of making bricks.

    1670: Started making practical pottery for everyday use.

    1688 to 1694: Freerk Jans Tichelaar & Jouwer Emes (wife) take over business.

    1770: (through this date) Yme Tichelaar, Freerk Jans and Jouwer Emes Tichelaar's son, in charge.

    1868: Jan and Jelmer Tichelaar (brothers and decendents) expanded business with new branding as brother's Tichelaar.

    1890: Concentrated on more stylish and ornamental earthenware.

    1940: Jan Pieters Tichelaar (post WWII) in charge.

    2010: Jan Tichelaar represents the 13th generation at the helm of the company.

    THARAWAT MAGAZINE:
    https://www.tharawat-magazine.com/family-business-branding/royal-tichelaar-makkum/#gs.19ev4p
     
  17. northbeach

    northbeach New Member

    Now if I can only figure out where my works fit into this timeline. I think what I called "JJ" may be "JT" instead. Not sure. Also, in Dutch "Y" for Yme Tichelaar is probably spelled "Ijme." So we have: J, T, I, F combinations. The above cup might be "FT" for Freerk Tichelaar, for example. His wife was "JT" for Jouwer Tichelaar. So many choices if you rotate the images. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 9:24 PM
  18. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly The worst prison is a closed heart

    See if these are help to you. They are from the book "Discovering Dutch Delftware Modern Delft and Makkum Pottery" by Van Hook.
    img20190317_095229.jpg img20190317_095249.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019 at 10:57 AM
    KikoBlueEyes and i need help like this.
  19. northbeach

    northbeach New Member

    Delightful, thank you for posting this information! :) Our guess is that the single saucer and two cups with the crossed swords and the dots are much, much older and that the others were made (possibly as copies) in later decades. Still searching for examples, this list of names is invaluable. Thank you again.

    Note: I am considering the possibility that the one marked with crossed swords and the dot may be from another maker--and the pattern was copied by Tichelaar. Or an earlier Tichelaar copied by the factory in later years.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019 at 6:30 PM
  20. northbeach

    northbeach New Member

    Screen Shot 2019-03-17 at 3.41.50 PM.png Makkum used the swords in later marks (it seems).
     
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