Wedgwood blue white trinket box Greek-Roman mythology lions horses cherubs angels and more help ID

Discussion in 'Pottery, Glass, and Porcelain' started by Mugzinnys, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. Mugzinnys

    Mugzinnys Well-Known Member

    This box has a lot going on, is it Jasperware, Queensware Roman or Greek mythology. On the top who is that gladiator and is that the arch angel? Could this be part of the Monticello Collection? This is a square box 4X4X2. There is something different on each side. This is a Sunday flea market find. 20180709_195914.jpg 20180709_195901(0).jpg 20180709_195925.jpg 20180709_195943.jpg 20180709_195953.jpg 20180709_200008.jpg 20180709_200017.jpg 20180709_200047.jpg
     
    pearlsnblume and Bronwen like this.
  2. Figtree3

    Figtree3 What would you do if you weren't afraid?

    Does it have the Wedgwood mark on the bottom? If so, please include a photo of it. If Wedgwood, it is jasperware.
     
  3. Mugzinnys

    Mugzinnys Well-Known Member

    2 more images
    This item was very dirty and did not look like much. I had brought a large Holland pitcher from this vendor for 5 dollar 20180709_200029.jpg 20180710_081036.jpg at the time I did not know that it had a small chip on the rim. The vendor knew because when I asked for a price on the box she said oh give me a dollar.
     
  4. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I don't think that is a gladiator, and certainly no archangel, but this is right up @Bronwen 's alley.:)
     
  5. Ownedbybear

    Ownedbybear Well-Known Member

    It's fairly modern, that number looks like a 70 or 78, so 1970/8.

    Blue jasper, Greek motifs, she's wearing a chiton. She is Nike, the winged Greek goddess of Victory. I'm trying to remember who the bloke is.
     
  6. janetpjohn

    janetpjohn Well-Known Member

    There are a ton of these on the worthpoint site. I searched Wedgwood blue jasperware square box to narrow it down.
     
    Bronwen, Mugzinnys and i need help like this.
  7. bercrystal

    bercrystal Well-Known Member

    Just as an FYI, you can clean up the bottom of the box with a little Bartender's Friend & a toothbrush.
     
  8. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    OK, working on it. Wedgwood designs can be copied from engraved gems, created by their own modelers in the neoclassical style of engraved gems, or use a mix 'n' match of elements to make scenes that don't always make much sense.

    The one on the top of the box is known as 'Ulysses staying the chariot of Victory'.

    This has to be one of the worst organized, most frustrating web sites out there, but still good to know about. Here's the design in the collection of the Wedgwood Museum, completely unidentified. If you search for 'Ulysses', nothing comes up. Aarrrgghhh!
     
  9. Ownedbybear

    Ownedbybear Well-Known Member

    It's Odysseus rather than Ulysses in this instance, I'd say. Nike is wearing Greek clothing.
     
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  10. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    They are the same person: Odysseus is the Greek name; Ulysses is Roman. I'm not evaluating the iconographical accuracy of the depiction, just saying how it is known in Wedgwood literature. If you want to find others, that's the name to use. The style is neoclassical; it is not copied from an ancient Greek or Roman gem. Many Wedgwood designs are copied from Poniatowski gems, but this does not seem to be one of them, nor can I find it among John Flaxman's illustrations for the Iliad. I haven't been able to establish it as an episode in Homer (or Virgil; 'Aeneas' is also getting me nowhere) at all.
     
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  11. Ownedbybear

    Ownedbybear Well-Known Member

    I know they're one and the same.
     
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  12. Mugzinnys

    Mugzinnys Well-Known Member

    Wow Bronwen That's some deep research AJ was right. I don't want to fry your brain but what's with the one with the lions pulling the chariot with the cherubs. There a different scene on each side total of 4 hope I got them all up.
     
  13. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    I can't see detail in pix of sides well enough to really characterize them. Most of the time these scenes get the default label of 'Cupids'. On 2 sides it looks to me like a butterfly is involved, which is always an allusion to Psyche & the spiritual side of love. The dog adds a playful element but also represents faithfulness.

    Think the scene with one cupid having his head covered is something about that one trying to scare the others.

    The scene with the lion-drawn chariot & the cupids with horns is a bit jumbled. The chariot belongs to Cybele but the horn blowing is usually associated with allegorical representations of Fame. In this case I would see it as a loose version of the Triumph of Cybele, except when the scene is peopled by putti or cupids instead of their rightful figures, they are usually seen as geniuses (genii).

    genius-of-cybele.jpg
     
  14. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Then I don't understand this:
    I can never tell a long chiton from a peplos & probably would have used the latter term for this garment because the gathered fabric is so prominent.

    Roman depictions of Victoria are not noticeably different from Greek representations of Nike. I certainly can't tell them apart by the goddesses' clothing. And, despite translators sometimes preferring to use the Latin names for the characters, they are still all either Greeks or Trojans, so it is natural that the goddess would be dressed à la grecque.

    In Wedgwood's day, the influential translations of Homer were the ones by Alexander Pope, who used the Latin names. Fun fact to know & tell is that, based on close examination, Pope believed the Odyssey was written by a woman, who added herself to the tale in the character of
    Nausicäa.

    Edit: Pope's translations were illustrated by John Flaxman, who early in his professional career was a modeler for Wedgwood. Another place I looked for Ulysses & Victory is among his drawings for the Iliad, but, nope. I don't know if this design is old enough to be one of his.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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  15. Mugzinnys

    Mugzinnys Well-Known Member

  16. Mugzinnys

    Mugzinnys Well-Known Member

  17. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    In the one Wedgwood book I have, a square box fundamentally like yours, in the collection of the author (Michael Herman), is dated c. 1930 & called a bonbon box. It has different scenes than yours, although also cupids/putti around the sides & an unrelated image on the lid, but the same floral ornamentation.

    The new pix reinforce my original impressions. On one side a cupid tries to catch a butterfly (Love) & on another he has caught it. The dog is barking at the spooky cupid, lending support to that interpretation. Will flip through my book a bit more; so far I have found illustrations of pieces that use these little scenes on the side, sadly IDed only as 'Cupids'.
     
  18. Mugzinnys

    Mugzinnys Well-Known Member

    Wow Bronwen the same floral pattern that is really interesting will be back in a few hours. I can not wait to get back to read your post.
     
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  19. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    My book yielded nothing more of use. Remembered I have a couple of little Wedgwood pieces myself, bought from an antique shop that was going out of business, before I got caught up with cameos. Couldn't remember what was on them, so went to look. Here's the lid of the trinket box:

    upload_2018-7-10_15-41-21.png

    Typical of Wedgwood pieces, decorations have nothing to do with one another. One short end has Aurora in her chariot; the other has Coriolanus & his mother. One long side has the Three Graces disarming/teasing Cupid; other appears to be a little procession off to crush grapes, but hard to tell. They are challenging to photograph, that's for sure:

    upload_2018-7-10_15-45-3.png
     
  20. DragonflyWink

    DragonflyWink Well-Known Member

    Pretty sure the little winged brats are John Flaxman, Jr.'s 'Cupids at Play' designs, similar to Lady Diana Beauclerk's wingless 'Bacchanalian Boys'...

    ~Cheryl
     
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