Featured What kind of Lace is this?

Discussion in 'Textiles, Needle Arts, Clothing' started by scoutshouse, Jan 18, 2019.

  1. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

    Tape lace with pull work?? or is it actually kind of crude needle lace?

    I've identified really old reticello needle lace, but it what I saw was more sturdy than this. All cotton.

    It was the leaf elements that drew me in.

    2019-01-17 15.11.46.jpg
    2019-01-17 15.11.59.jpg
    2019-01-17 15.11.34.jpg
    2019-01-17 15.11.55.jpg
     
  2. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    This is a bobbin lace. The "leaves" are called "tallies".

    I can't really tell any more than that.
     
  3. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I agree, bobbin lace. Looks Italian to me.
    What is it part of, scouts? Could we see more?
     
  4. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

    Thanks, @Jivvyand @Any Jewelry

    I photographed it from the wrong side! At first I thought it was tape lace, but... Then I found: 12 Vintage ITALIAN LINEN and BOBBIN LACE Dinner NAPKINS
    below on Worthpoint.

    It's a round fine linen table cloth with 9 inch lace edge x 35 inch total diameter.

    Jivvy, I once knew those were talleys - the squares are talleys, too - right?

    I just thought it was pretty and well made enough to buy for a $3 research project...

    Identifying lace: Yet another black art !

    LaceTableCloth2.jpg
    LaceTableCloth1.jpg


    Screenshot 2019-01-19 11.57.13.png
     
  5. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Nice, scouts.:)
    Tell me about it!:blackalien::hilarious:
     
    judy, pearlsnblume, kyratango and 2 others like this.
  6. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

    How old do you think it *might* be, @Any Jewelry ?

    I don't think there's a huge market for small, round lace tablecloths - but who knows? :)
     
    judy, pearlsnblume and i need help like this.
  7. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I honestly couldn't say, scouts.:sorry:
     
  8. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    While I'm fairly certain that tallies can be square, I don't think these squares are tallies.

    But that's all book learnin', I'm not an actual Black Arts practitioner. :bucktooth:
     
  9. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

  10. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    Oh goodness, I absolutely cannot read the weaving patterns/diagrams that a lace maker can actually read. :hilarious:

    I would expect a square tally in bobbin lace to look more like this:

    temp01.jpg

    It's possible (on your piece) that the little squares inside the big squares are tallies, but I can't see them well enough to make a guess.
     
    scoutshouse likes this.
  11. Northern Lights Lodge

    Northern Lights Lodge Well-Known Member

    Hi everyone,
    Sorry I'm late to this party. Yes, Scoutshouse; you did photograph it on the wrong side. And yes, Italian... I would say Milanese lace. I'd say that you got a VERY good deal at $3.00!!!

    Yes, Jivvy... you are right that the raised squares are called "tallies". If they are oval or pointed on both ends; they are generally called point d'esprit. Point d'esprit can also be a very fine small tally within the open net ground.

    Leslie at the Northern Lights Lodge
     
  12. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Thanks Leslie, good to have a lace specialist on board.:)
     
  13. Northern Lights Lodge

    Northern Lights Lodge Well-Known Member

    Thank you! I hope I can help anyone who may have questions about lace or needlework. I do dearly love lace!
     
  14. Kathy Anderson

    Kathy Anderson Well-Known Member

    scoutshouse likes this.
  15. Northern Lights Lodge

    Northern Lights Lodge Well-Known Member

    Reply: The squares indicate that you work a tally over it. The dots indicate where you place a pin... to get to each pin; you would choose a stitch (series of twisting and crossing of 4 threads -- then set the pin and continue. Kind of a loose description of working a pattern - sorry.

    Leslie
     
  16. Northern Lights Lodge

    Northern Lights Lodge Well-Known Member

    Hi Scoutshouse; No, your pictures are of pure hand made bobbin lace. (albiet the "backside". It isn't pulled work; as pulled work is based upon a single piece of fabric that you snip and "pull" threads and then do needle work to bind remaining threads into a pattern. I don't even think I'd call it; tape lace - I think I'd call it "Cluny" lace.

    Battenburg is a lace formed of machine made tapes (sometimes with openwork) that are basted down to a printed fabric or paper pattern. Then it is hand worked to add fancy work stitches to hold all the tapes together. More of what I'd call a "hand assembled" form of lace. There are many names for different styles of Battenburg; but they are all created the same way in various weights of tapes and fancy work stitches.

    Leslie
     
  17. Kathy Anderson

    Kathy Anderson Well-Known Member

    Ah-ha! Thank you!
     
    scoutshouse likes this.
  18. Northern Lights Lodge

    Northern Lights Lodge Well-Known Member

    You are quite welcome!
     
    scoutshouse and Kathy Anderson like this.
  19. Northern Lights Lodge

    Northern Lights Lodge Well-Known Member

    Figtree3 and scoutshouse like this.
  20. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

    Thanks for all your comments and the expertise of @Northern Lights Lodge :)

    Looking around, I found a good reference site lynxlace.com that compares bobbin and needle lace samples (and a LOT of others!) side by side. I think I finally understand and can identify the difference... The images enlarge (edit: on their site, not here I see), making it easy to see detail.

    Compare page below

    All below are guipure or bar grounded laces. Needle laces have bars made of buttonhole stitches. Bobbin made guipure laces have bars made of braids: usually 4 thread braid (2 pairs), but Honiton may use more pairs. In the 2nd photo, you can clearly see the braids in the top piece and the buttonholed bars in the bottom piece. Also study the differences between the thick thread (gimp) outlining the cloth flower petals in the top piece and the thick cordonnet covered with buttonhole stitch below. In the 3rd photo, study the different buttonhole stitches used in the bottom piece to create density and textural differences; and compare this to cloth stitch and half stitch sections in the top bobbinlace piece, which serve the same purpose. Find the bobbin made cloth stitch areas (which look like woven cloth) and compare to the dense areas of the bottom piece. Compare the braids. The photo at right also shows: bobbin lace left, needle lace right. Compare the bars; the buttonhole stitches and braids are easy to see.

    [​IMG]
    Top-needle,
    right-bobbin,
    center bottom-bobbin,
    left bottom-needle

    [​IMG]
    Top-bobbin,
    bottom-needle

    [​IMG]
    Top-bobbin,
    bottom-needle

    [​IMG]
    Left-bobbin,
    right-needle


    This is what made me wonder if it was tape lace, at first...
    [​IMG]
    Battenberg type lace using straight machine made tapes.
    Notice folds when tape changes direction.

    Cool!
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
    Figtree3 and 2manybooks like this.
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