Featured Eunuch's Badge (?)

My friends bring me Chinese silk embroideries thinking to add to my small collection of this three dimensional art form. Later reproductions are easy to spot. I have several from these sources - Don't tell them I don't want to hurt their feelings. I have good provenance on the white crane badge. Now the gold dragon roundel - not so much. One of the reasons I think it might be real is the thread. While the workmanship is not like some of my more involved pieces with tiny stitches like the "forbidden stitch", but not everything that was made was of the imperial level quality such as the dragon robes. They are in a class by themselves. A Eunuch was a slave. Or this could be from some other lowly servants garb.

 

I got it in Southern California. He could have spent time here as Colorado is in the western US. Thanks for the reference.

 

None of my embroideries are from eBay. They all come from small antique shops, garage sales, flea markets and the like. I have been collecting them for 25 years and can usually spot the difference.

 

Dragon robes are in a class by themselves. The work is exquisite. I'll have to go there next time I'm in Canada. I never miss a chance to see dragon robes.

 

I heard back Ed Boswell. I got Gary Massaro's cell number but also a caution to wait until nights or weekends to call. I'll keep you updated.

 

Heard from Ed Boswell. Got Gary Massaro's phone number. Will keep you updated.

 

That is the thing, and replicas (and fakes) have been around for a long time.
While this badge is beautiful, it does not have the exact, close stitching I remember from my time in the Asian antiques trade and seeing collections.
For instance, look at the bats in the close up picture. They are a bit ragged looking. I realize they are small, but on the antique imperial embroidery I saw perfect, close satin stitches, without any open spaces.

 

Hey. If I was sure this was real, I wouldn't be asking.

 

I don't think this could be a eunuch or servant. I doubt they would be allowed to wear the dragon. I don't think it was a household badge, but specific to the Imperial family. And if it's not up to Imperial standards, it's not Imperial.

(That catalog, by the way, is very good... and out there pretty cheap. If someone wants a solid introduction to the subject, I highly recommend it.)

 

I have been to several exhibitions where items such as yours were being sold as gifts, even though they didn't relate directly to the exhibition but had a close association. So your item could have been bought at the exhibition which is attached to the frame.
There are many examples of this type of textile and you see plenty in Hong Kong being passed off as genuine, so I would be cautious.
Any chance to remove the back of the frame and have a look at the embroidery technique? It might tell more of a story than the front and I am sure some of the textile or embroidery experts in the forum would have a good idea.
By the way, I love it.

 

AuDragon. Great idea. It's not sealed, so I'll do that and report back. I really enjoy having these things on my living room wall including the souvenir from my first dragon robe exhibit, which is clearly nothing more than a piece of silk with an embroidery machine design of a dragon. I was just curious about this one in particular because of the thread. I like the three dimensionality of them and there is always new to see no matter how many times I look at them. It's matters not if they are real or reproductions.

 

The eunuchs in imperial service were highly trained servants and officials, not simply slaves. Some became very powerful and wealthy.
http://www.chinasage.info/eunuchs.htm

 

How interesting. I'm putting a watch on this thread! Do report back.

It's a beautiful piece.

 

I talked to Gary Massaro and he remembers the piece well. Gary at one time ran an antique shop and says he knew real from reproduction. Apparently, he has a friend who traveled to Asia and brought back things a couple times a year, and still does but now he is into bronzes. This friend brought this embroidery back from China and Gary says it was cut from an old decaying Imperial robe. I want to thank Debora for tracking down Ed Boswell, which allowed me to connect with Gary Massaro. I want to thank all of you for taking the time to comment and offer information. I am thrilled that my dragon is real even if it wasn't a badge.

 

That is wonderful news, Kiko.
Not the decaying part, but you know what I mean.

 

Any Jewelry. I always appreciate your input. You know your stuff. In this case, it was always the thread, bright, shiny and untarnished. I have one other piece with gold thread. Bright. Untarnished. Four claws. A thin linear piece. Very intricate, as you would expect. No provenance, but clearly different in nature from my other pieces. Thanks again for your help.

 

This dragon roundel is an authentic one dating back to as early as Tonzi to no later than mid Guanxu Dynasty.

The roundel according to the costume regulation set by Emperor Qianlong should belong to 1. Emperor 2.Mother of the Emperor 3. Empress 4. all other consorts in the Palace 5. a Prince 6. wife(s) of the Prince 7. the first son of the Prince. That's it! no more.....100% sure not eunuch.

However according to my experience this example is not of use in the Palace where all the costumes were made "delicately" by the three Imperial Embroidery Facilities (Jianan, Honzho and Soochu) in the south. The embroidery techniques and styles of this roundel are not of Imperial family costume quality.

Thus this roundel should belong to a Prince, the wife(s) of the Prince or the first son of the Prince. The Shou medallion on top of the dragon tells us the high rank of its owner. The embroidery technique is not very delicate, telling us this roundel might come from some ordinary embroidery stores which is normal.

Overall this is a good one to collect.

My name is Jimmy Lee and I am an amateur Qing dynasty costume researcher and collector. I can be reached at : for any questions.

 

Chinese Dragons with 5 claws are for Royal family only. 4 claw dragons are for minor nobility & government officials. The rest of the population dragons can only be 3 claws.

 

Not correct completely. Three toed dragons are used for royal family only in the very beginning of the Qing dynasty. After Kanxi period three toed ones rarely appeared. They are not used for low officials! Please be accurate so we do not provide false information.

 

Jimmy. I am thrilled about your analysis. This has always been one of the prized pieces in my small collection. In studying your response especially the dates, I was unable to find the reference to the Tonzi in English language records of Chinese dynasty. Can you give me the dates of this dynasty? Again, I so appreciate your looking at this piece.