Paul Silvestre Bronze Satyr Bookend Pair

Greetings
I've got what I think is one of the better antiques of my grandmothers collection here, but I do need a bit of help with a mark and some french translation. Also just kinda want to show it off



So the impressions, I don't know what they mean.
One looks like "Silvestre Sclp", and the other one looks like "Susse Fes Edls Paris"
Also the mark on the back, I don't know what that is but with a loupe it looks like it says " . Paris . Susse Freres Editeurs " which seems to match up with the 2nd impression but i dont know if its right, and I don't know what it means. Also I don't recognize the symbol inside the mark or what the "M M" means.

Any help appreciated, thanks guys

 

Think you have most of it figured out: Silvestre sculpted the originals; Susse Frères (Susse Brothers) had them made. The remaining question is the foundry mark.

https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/m...ends-satyrs-paul-silvestre-1920/id-f_1177834/

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Art-Deco-Fr...l-Silvestre-/312244281095?hash=item48b3359f07

 

just an update, the 1stdibs listing linked by Bronwen, i used the etsy trick I learned on that page and i found the price it was sold for in the page source code, it went for $1668.95 USD. Very nice trick, apparently it works on 1stdibs too

 

Ooh, the "etsy trick"! We don't know that one. Please clue us all in!
Meanwhile, might the "M M" stand for 2000 as the year of manufacture?
Also, could the bit in the circle read "Susse Freres Editions"?

 

Beautiful! What's up with the little horns?

Clue us in on the etsy/1st dibs trick, plz?

 

Yes, please.

Debora

 

thats it, but thats an even better automated version of the way I do it. not sure why there is a discrepancy of a few bucks when i plug in the 1stdibs page linked above into that tool, but yea.

Ok for the people wanting the trick itself and not an automated tool: we've all seen those unfortunate etsy listings that come up in google search results that are already sold and don't give any price information. well, if you right click on your sold-out etsy page somewhere and choose "view page source" and then ctrl+f search for "price" you can find the price the item was sold for, its still there in the metadata, hah!

btw you gotta be a bit careful with the manual trick, because there are often advertised listings that also have a price on them elsewhere on the page, and you can end up getting hits on those too.

the flippertools method looks good and fast, but since its automated, it may be prone to error and pick up one of the other priced items on the same page. I like the manual method just for ensured accuracy.

@scoutshouse they are satyr children. from online dictionary thing:
Greek Mythology
one of a class of lustful, drunken woodland gods. In Greek art they were represented as a man with a horse's ears and tail, but in Roman representations as a man with a goat's ears, tail, legs, and horns.

you may notice on close inspection their legs are a bit hairy and goaty.

 

Exploring your tip, I took a look, not at the page source, but at 'View Page Info', another option you get by right clicking on the page (but away from any link or pic). The first thing up in the preview pane, under the first, 'General', tab, was a list of meta tags. I put the last 2, 'productrice;amount' & 'productrice:currency', in bold. No searching the source code, no picking up the wrong price.

width=1024, maximum-scale=3
View this item and discover similar bookends for sale at 1stdibs - Art Deco styled figures on bookends representing male and female satyr.”¨Reduced version of the ”œMiroir d”™eau” fountains in Paris and Lucerne. Signed:
10504066
639414126195545
326856897368027
1stdibs.com
Art Deco bronze bookends with satyrs by Paul Silvestre, 1920.
https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/m...ends-satyrs-paul-silvestre-1920/id-f_1177834/
website
https://a.1stdibscdn.com/archivesE/upload/9310/24_14/1177834/1177834_l.jpeg
summary
@1stdibs
https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/m...ends-satyrs-paul-silvestre-1920/id-f_1177834/
Art Deco bronze bookends with satyrs by Paul Silvestre, 1920.
View this item and discover similar bookends for sale at 1stdibs - Art Deco styled figures on bookends representing male and female satyr.”¨Reduced version of the ”œMiroir d”™eau” fountains in Paris and Lucerne. Signed:
https://a.1stdibscdn.com/archivesE/upload/9310/24_14/1177834/1177834_l.jpeg
1674.36
USD

I use a similar trick if I want a photo I can't get by right clicking directly on it, by finding it in the files under the 'Images' tab.

 

Apparently, if you type :, & follow it with p, you get that imogi.

 

very nice, thats a good shortcut, the source code tends to be tediously long and impossible to navigate just with your eyes.

found another 1stdibs listing of the same bookends sold for $3695.15 with $225 shipping???!!! they dont even weigh 10lbs together.
https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/m...ends-paul-silvestre-susse-freres/id-f_710709/

There is a major difference on this one though, the foundry mark is completely different. I dont know if this accounts for the difference in price, or if it makes no difference at all??? I can't read this mark either. I can see "France" instead of Paris at the bottom, but thats about it.

 

You may still have to wade through some things, & make sure you are choosing the right one, but using the 'find' function makes it less tedious.

 

JMHO. looks new to me. or at least - what polite people call - a museum edition or replica. that patina is never 1920s.

 

As near as i can tell from http://www.bronze-gallery.com/info/info.cfm?infoID=21 the foundry ran until the 1970's, but that article is far from conclusive.

the foundry mark is likely the key to dating it. I found a 400pg book dedicated to susse bros with many color illustrations from 1992, but its very expensive and no ebooks exist.

I'm not very well-versed in identifying metalware at all, is there a comprehensive foundry mark database available anywhere?

 

susse frères was the original foundry company. susse frères éditeurs could still be used by Susse Frères Gallerie which still exists and also co-works with a small art foundry by the name of Susse Fondeur - both in Paris.
could we have a clear sharp pic of the backside mark, please ?

 

This is the best I can do with the phone. Don't have a proper camera. I am 100% positive the word on the right is "editeurs".

 

another susse freres make of Paul Silvestre advertised as 1925 with same patina(ish).
https://auction.catawiki.com/kavels...011l32803&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=cpn

this one has a "V" next to the foundry mark.

I found a french porcelain date coding scheme here https://www.thefrenchporcelainsociety.com/about-us/marks/ used by a porcelain manufacturer. Its not metalwork but I expect possibly most french ceramic and metalworkers used such a scheme to date their things. Susse Freres probably had their own dating scheme following this pattern. Wish I could figure out what it is. But i'm positive M M doesn't mean 2000, these things belonged to my grandmother for a long time. They probably started using double letters after single character alphabet ran out as per the scheme in the link.

Assuming the link above with the "V" mark dating 1925 is accurate, and that they follow that dating scheme, it would put my piece at 1940. does that seem plausible?

 

your assumption about the marks of porcelain factories and foundries having the same scheme is void. date schemes were always made up by the individual factories.
catawiki is no reference at all - or only for exaggarated pricing and wrong expertise by would-be Benelux experts.
JMHO. Either you have a very young grandmother or it's a family tale. sorry.

 

just wondering if you are basing that off of anything concrete yet other than the look of the patina?

 

Oh - I dont read much! Title states satyr

Chrome on my new phone won't give a direct link - i open the image in a new tab and copy that link. You can also use that image to zoom in.