Featured Tiffany Sterling Baby Cup and Porringer

Hey all!

This probably should have gone into the silver forum, but part of this presentation is ivory, and I felt that the post would have more eyes on it here.

This baby cup and porringer were given to a Ghopper ancestor on the occasion of his birth in 1911, and I feel pretty comfortable assigning these two items that date. The cup and porringer are a set. On the bottom of each is inscribed "Tiffany & Co/5478H Makers 3234/Sterling Silver/925-100/M" and below that "8 1/2/Gills" The 3234 number may or may not be correct, as it is extremely difficult to read, even with magnification. I do not know the details of what this inscription may mean. Each item has a bas relief frieze of children doing childish activities of the day, such as playing trumpets and drums, pushing each other in wheelbarrows, etc.

I believe that the handle of the porringer is ivory. It has Schraeger lines, both in parallel and at angles. The third photo shows the underside, but I ran up against my phone's limitations on resolution. There is a tiny crack on the upper side near where the handle is joined to the body of the porringer. I suppose that it's possible that it's bone, but I don't see any capillaries or dark lines. I believe Tiffany also had a wood option for these handles, but the feeling is dense and cool to the touch, and it doesn't seem like wood.

I know that we don't do values here, and in any case I'm not interested in selling, since these belonged to an ancestor. Nevertheless, for curiosity's sake, I sure would like some kind of value for these. I can't find any porringers online with ivory handles, but offhand I'd set a value of $800-$1000 U.S. for this matched set. You don't have to say anything, just type 1 for "agree" or 2 for "disagree."

Ha ha.

Thanks!!

 

Very nice.

 

Would've been nice to see the marks, but if this is what yours look like, production would have been between 1879 and 1891:



https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/d...lver-childrens-parade-baby-cup/id-f_25934182/

https://www.925-1000.com/Tiffany_Date_Code.html


~Cheryl

 

That was one lucky Ghopper ancestor. What a great thing to be gifted.

Debora

 

You've seen this? Same-shaped porringer but dark handle.

https://www.nathanhsilver.com/produ...CGZUhb5VsTKfkkkOrtno1QdaxBOffUn0A3a2Nkitg_zIk

Debora

 

Lovely ! We bought my great nieces a Tiffany baby cup and knife /fork set . That was 4 years ago and they were like $1200 a set !

 

Ivory can't be sold here at all where I am, so the porringer would have to be sold damaged or for scrap... which would be a crime. I have no idea what Tiffany baby stuff sells for beyond "a lot".

 

@DragonflyWink

Here's the inscription on the bottom. Not the best image; I hope it helps!

 

that's a stunning set !!!!!!!

Can I be in your will !!!!! ......... Please !!

 

1 for "agree" or 2 for "disagree."


I'm of two minds !........

 

Heh, pretty much unreadable. There were different 'M/m' marks, if yours has the same serifed capital 'M' as on the piece I posted, then it would have been produced 1879-91, that 'M' for Edward C. Moore, Tiffany director from 1873-91.

Are you sure they both bear the same marks? In 1879, this design was issued a series of 4 digit pattern numbers beginning with '54', each different style piece should end with their own numbers, the other number is an order code.

The handle is ivory, not that you'd be selling, they're definitely antique, but wading through the different states' regulations is a pain, though there are only a few states that completely ban the sale of elephant ivory.

Here's a bit from Carpenter's 'Tiffany Silver' (1978):





~Cheryl

 

Thanks Cheryl. BTW the porringer and cup have the same marks, down to the serified capital M EXCEPT that one is 5470 and one is 5478, so good call there. Oh, and the cup bears the monogram of my relative, who was, in fact, born in 1911. So it looks like a previous set of silver, produced from 1879-1891, was still around to be sold in 1911. That’s exciting, and I’ll take it!!.

Oh, and I’m beginning to think that my $ estimate was low, given subsequent information.

 

Hunhhh, wonder if the anomalous 'H' is perhaps an indication that they were made as a set - I can picture them in nice presentation case, sitting overlooked in the store for twenty years, until chosen for your relative. Such a wonderful heirloom...

~Cheryl

 

I can see them sitting on a back shelf, forgotten until grabbed down and put out for sale. That happened in other shops and factories. They were finding pre-WWII Czech rhinestones well into the 90s, and bakelite bits here well into the 60s. I can see a Tiffany location having a spring cleaning and "hey, what's this?"

 

Had to check the dates. Tiffany's was located at Union Square, 15th Street from 1870 to 1905 and then moved to Fifth Avenue and 37th Street until 1940. Here's the Union Square location and that at Fifth Avenue. This the same porringer, isn't it? Presented in 1913. Perhaps a particularly popular pattern that was available for a number of years.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233884707616

Debora

 

Silver manufacturers produced most of their pieces as long as they were selling.

The only marks shown in the eBay listing you refer to is from the plate, a later addition, with the pattern number 7344 issued in 1883, but in this case unimportant to when it was actually produced, which would have been between 1907 and 1947 since it bears the small Gothic 'm' of Tiffany director John C, Moore II (in this case, 1907-13, though engraved dates aren't always a reliable indication of age).

Grasshopper's set was produced at least 20 years prior to his relative's birthdate.





~Cheryl

 

I’ve thought of another possibility: Perhaps my relative’s grand bought the two pieces in the 1880s, passed them along to the father or mother, who then passed them on to the relative in question in 1911, ONLY THEN engraving the cup with the monogram. Not the expected series of events, but stranger things have happened, right?

 

Certainly possible, children's silver wasn't always engraved, and sometimes silver is found with added engraving when passed along...

~Cheryl

 

That was my initial idea too, that it had been passed down a generation. But the piece with the same design on eBay, to which I posted the link, was inscribed with a 1913 date. Since we now have two Edwardian inscriptions, I think it more likely to have been a popular design that was sold for some time.

Debora

 

Sometimes you'll find old pieces with two, three, four etc sets of markings from when they were passed down. I hate seeing those sold, but love seeing the history.

Also....anyone else thinking Kate would have an awful time getting her last name spelled correctly these days? Or pronounced at all?