Featured Oil Painter ID Mystery!?

Hi!
I'm trying to figure out some information on two very cool old oil paintings. One is of a formal man and has a signature that is hard to make out but says 1850. The other is of a woman but I cannot seem to find the signature but it could be under the frame. I'm trying not to remove the frame if possible :/

This is such a mystery, I have found two painters that it could be maybe but any suggestions would be helpful! I am pretty sure the painting of the man by is Ehregott Grunler but not 100%. This is the only thing I can find that is sold and the signature looks like it matches? https://www.mutualart.com/Artwork/Herrenportrat/A11245ACFC0746BC

Hopefully someone has some information to help solve my mystery?!
Thank you!

 

I like them both, but maybe have a preference for the second. The portrait of the woman is rather formulaic, but the man has been placed in an open air setting that grounds him in the context of 19th C romanticism.

 

Very special if they are. A very skilled artist. I do wonder if the lady has been restored.

 

I agree... the portraits were done by a very good painter.

To my eye, it does look like your second painting could be by Ehregott Grunler. The style looks similar and the dates are close.

 

Beautiful paintings, Tarren. I agree, the man looks like an Ehregott Grünler portrait, the woman could be by another painter.
Here is something on him, in German, but there is not much text for google translate to make a mess off.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehregott_Grünler

Another portrait by Grünler a bit down this page:
https://www.blouinartinfo.com/galleryguide-venues/289695/past-results/110225
It was sold in 2013 for €880 (Euro).

 

I think you definitely have two different artists here, and the second is from the better of the two.

 

agree. one by Ehregott Grünler. well known, painted Goethe a.o. (that was a well-known drunkard like Charles Bukowski...).
the woman could be by Grünler as well, seems he painted Elisabeth Röckel, an opera singer, at one time. (she was the founder of the unsuccessful musical style Röckel Roll and died impoverished...).

 

I thought she was best remembered for her legacy of the head-bow?

 

Hi Tarren and welcome. This is a great site for information, opinions and a little fun.

I also really like the gentleman, but was not able to find another signature of his to compare. The lady looks less authentic to me but could have suffered from too much cleaning or been restored. She just doesn't seem to have the same subtle skill that the man does. However, they are both very impressive paintings.

 

https://www.google.ch/search?q=Ehre...xIUKHUYhD3YQ_AUIDygC&biw=1120&bih=540#imgrc=_

quite similar paintings.

 

Thanks for the link Fid.
In the eighth painting of the lady, you can see how different the style is to the lady above. The use of colour, the soft blush on the cheeks, the more tonal facial colour, the softer and more flowing clothes are more similar to the gentleman above. Also, as mos said, the background of the gentleman is more expressive, much like several works in the link.
I'm also thinking the man is by Grunler, and the lady not.

 

A blacklight/UV-A light can assist in determining if there's been a restoration -- differences in the paint that don't show up in normal light can show up under blacklight.

 

the auction house that sold it says it's by Grünler.

 

Did the auction house have a reason for their attribution? To the eye, there is no reason to believe those two paintings are by the same artist.

Debora

 

The painting of the woman reminds me of primitive portraits, especially in the coloring, with a dark background and a lot of contrast.

To my eye, the style looks almost like a cross between primitive portraits and more classic ones.

 

Sounds like a good idea.

 

Hi everyone thank you so much for all of your detective work! I am going to attach the back of the woman's painting here...

I will reach out and see if I can get the back of the painting of the gentleman!
Thank you all for your help! (Wish I could read German, seems like there was more information out there I couldn't understand!)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Seraph_Stirnbrand

 

I don't find something fitting for A. Fehr, the copyist.
there was an Adolf Fehr in Switzerland, but I rather think it was done from a local German artist.