Need info on this painting

Hi, I am looking for any info on this old painting. It has been in my sister-in-law’s family for many years. I believe it came from Spain, That is all we pretty much know about it. Came from here great grand father it does not have any signature signage or anything. The frame is hand carved and the painting is on a canvas I believe. Any info would be greatly appreciated maybe even the value. Thanks

 

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nice frame...can we see the back ?

 

Might be an image of St. Margaret Mary Alacoque (17th century French nun, Order of the Visitation of Holy Mary), who had a particular devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. I cannot tell what the long staff-like object she is holding might be. Can you tell what it is or show a better pic?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Mary_Alacoque
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Visitation_of_Holy_Mary

Another possiblity is St. Gertrude the Great (Gertrude of Helfta), a German 13th century Benedictine nun also depicted holding a heart and sometimes a crosier or a staff with a pennant. (Maybe that is the long object.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrude_the_Great
https://libguides.regis.edu/c.php?g=53879&p=346929

 

Since her eyes are closed, I think it is the Italian saint Margaret of Castelo. She was blind and crippled from birth, and joined the Dominican third (lay) order.


https://www.kenteringen.nl/heilige-van-de-dag/04-heiligen-april/13-april-2/
(Dutch site)

The painting and frame look 18th century Italian to me. The carving of the frame is more 'lightweight' than Spanish frames.

 

Wiki page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_of_Castello

 

Ill see if I can get some pictures of the back

 

Thank you all for the feedback back

 

Looking at the corners of the painting, it looks like the original image is oval in shape. The upper left corner seems to show a wood panel behind the painted area. In the lower left corner there appears to be a shadow below the curved edge of the image, and the small pink insert looks like it might be behind the image.

If any of these observations are accurate, it would indicate that the current frame may not be original to the painting. Also, it is unlikely the painting would be on a stretched canvas. If so, one option might be that it is painted on a copper panel.

 

That's what I saw too and also drew the conclusion that the painting had been inserted into a pretty, available frame. That's why it's always so helpful to post photographs of the back of a framed piece.

Debora

 

Another possiblity.

But the saint's habit does not look Dominican to me. Dominicans wear a white tunic & white scapular with a black cappa (cloak). In art the white garment is usually clearly displayed to indicate the religious order. This nun wears a black habit. (However, she does have white sleeves with buttons under her black robe. That strikes me as unusual--but I am ignorant of what order may wear/once wore buttoned, tight sleeves. Maybe it is a clue to her identity or to the date of the painting.)

Lowered eyes do not necessarily mean blindness, but modesty, humility, obedience--all those decorous "female" virtues appropriate to a nun or female saint.

Here's some older images of the pre-eminent Dominican female saint, Catherine of Siena, by Giovanni di Paolo (15th century Sienese). Note her white Dominican habit under the black cappa. Her veil is also white, but some later images show Dominicans with a black veil over the white coif, so I suspect there were changes in the habit over time. But I know of no Dominicans wearing black for the main garment.


Giovanni di Paolo, St. Catherine of Siena, Fogg Museum of Art, Cambridge, Massachusetts


Giovanni da Paolo, St. Catherine of Siena Exchanging Her Heart with Christ, Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York City

 

I beleive it is St Gertrude that is depicted in your painting.The 19 ct Mexican school painting of St Gertrude has her holding the heart,also has the staff,and more notably if you look it has the buttons on the cuffs as in your painting.

 

The tight, white buttoned sleeves are plaguing me. Most nuns' habits that I recognize have full, loose sleeves. But habits do change over time, and I am more familiar with 15th century images. I have been googling such Qs as "When did buttons come into use in Europe?" (Answer: 13th century; no help there) and "Which nuns' habits had tight, buttoned sleeves?" Answer was indeterminate AI generalizations about possiblity of pinning or buttoning up their sleeves for work.) AI is really bad about distinguishing contemporary from historical habits!

My first reaction was that buttons seem like a decorative vanity so I suspected a "later" (later than 15th cen, my area) habit, from a time when buttons were commonplace fasteners and did not evoke superfluous decoration (18th century?).

So, what we need is an expert in historical religious habits who can identify the habit and its date. Identifying the order will confirm or eliminate some of our possible saints. The date of buttoned sleeves in a habit may aid in identifying the the time of the image. Historical figures are usually depicted in the garments of the time painted (unless there is a particular reason--such as classical influence--to depict "historical" garments). So--whoever this nun may be--the garment she wears is probably closer to the time when the image was painted than to the time when she lived, especially if the eras were centuries apart.

 

This is wonderful. While I'm obsessing about buttoned sleeves you discovered some real pictorial evidence. It may be that the buttoned sleeves refer to 19th century orders, not 13th century Benedictines. Both heart and staff with pennant are attributes of St. Gertrude the Great. Since this has a Mexican provenance, it indicates that Gertrude was venerated in a country with Spanish historical influence.

And your Gertrude also has downcast eyes.

 

Also note the red cloth in her left hand,is also in both,a symbol of the blood of Christ.In most of the depictions of St Gertrude she is depicted with tight sleeves,so I beleive that even though the Mexican school depiction of her is 19ct,her attire is more likely to be of 13 ct origin,again IMO

 

Here is another St Gertrude with the buttoned sleeves, heart (enclosing infant Christ), and crosier instead of staff: Dallas Museum of Art, Mexican artist: Miguel Cabrera, 1763. https://dma.org/art/collection/object/5328501

 

Except we have NO images of Gertrude from the 13th century. I have been searching the web and the earliest I could find were 17th century. Not surprising, because (as far as an AI summary can be trusted), she was not considered a saint until the 17th century & her writings were largely lost and partially rediscovered in the 17th century. (The crosier in many images is thought to be the result of a confusion with other Gertrudes who were abbesses.)

I found three 17th century paintings of St. Gertrude the Great:

Pietro Liberi (1605-1687) Italian Baroque painter, active in Venice & Veneto, born Padua


Anonymous artist from Seville, 2nd half 17th century



Isidoro Arredondo (1655–1702), Spanish painter


None of them show the white buttoned sleeve. I do not think that has anything to do with 13th century Benedictine habits. More likely 18th century, when they appear in images of Gertrude.

In any case, FN's image of the saint definitely is no earlier than the 18th cen, maybe 19th. I am not comfortable dating it because it is likely a copy from an earlier image of the saint.

 

Wow you all are a world of knowledge!!!! Appreciate all the feedback