Pine Needle Baskets Help

Hi,
wI have 2 pine needle baskets and trying to determine where they were made. When searching I found you can take classes to make these, so perhaps these ones are from a craft class?
3" diameter x 3"H, the other is 4 1/2" diameter x 4 1/4"H.
Any information appreciated.
Thanks for looking.

 

All I know about pine needle baskets is... that Bdigger here (Mike) MAKES them! I have one!!!

 

thanks gila! I remember bdigger showing some of his work, he is very talented

 

Until we hear from Taupou or Komo, I'll offer what I know:

Although there is some disagreement, it is generally agreed that the technique of making pine-needle baskets originated outside the US (in the Canary Islands) especially as regards some of the more decorative rosettes (not present in yours); but a number of US tribes adopted the style, and have been making pine-needle baskets for 100 years or more. Most of those tribes are in the southern or SE US; Florida, or the Coushatta tribe of Louisiana for example.
The craft style has reached the mainstream crafting community, and kits and instructions have made the basketry style widely available. As a result, it can be quite difficult to determine whether a particular basket is native or non-native made; or to attribute it to a particular tribe - certainly I am not qualified to do that.
I do have quite a few pine-needle baskets in my own collection, and many I do know to be native-made, because they came from a reputable source, with documentation indicating the name and tribe of the maker. Absent that documentation, I would not be able to tell.
These do look similar to some that I have, but beyond that I can't tell you much.

 

A bit more; one article about a family of Coushatta basket-makers in Louisiana quotes them as saying the pine needle baskets began to be made by that tribe in the mid-twentieth century, due to a scarcity of native materials such as rivercane, wiregrass, and split white oak which had been used previously.
Here's a photo of another pine-needle basket showing the Canary-Island style rosettes:

 

Thanks for all the great information Steve!
Any I'm finding don't have the ends of the needles in place, but mine do - I wondered if that could help.
That example you show is wonderful, love the rosettes.

 

I can't add much to this....
If there was more intricate work....or colored thread ......it might be easier to place ....

 

I'm not enough of an expert to know anything about the treatment of the ends of the bundles, sorry; though that may well tell an expert something. And it is true that many pine-needle baskets do not include the ends. I also have seen some where the ends are included and carefully aligned to become a decorative element in themselves.

 

Thanks komokwa!
Yes, the ends on mine don't really form a design. thanks Steve, I'll keep looking.

 

You'll have to wait for @Taupou

I did find this. Your shape with lid is what is confusing me.
http://www.navajorugsindianbaskets....Zb_-Eastern_Tribes_Indian_Baskets/1781/#!1781

 

Thanks cluttered, great link! That one has the ends of the needles too, and the base looks the same. If you look at the next photo there is a lid similar to mine - the knob is bigger on mine.

 

I am looking for suggestions as how to clean the outside and inside of this beautiful Pineneedle pocketbook that my mother in law made in 1977. I am having some difficulty trying to figure out how to post the picture on here. So I will start with this post and hopefully add a picture.