Featured Any ideas as to the date this photograph was taken?

Hello, everyone. This is the only known photograph (my photo of a framed and matted photo) of my great-grandmother. She died when my grandmother was a very small child, so I don’t have her date of birth. Based on my grandmother’s birthday, my best guess is that this photograph was taken in approximately 1900-1910.

It is my understanding that this was taken before she married my great-grandfather. It is believed that this photograph was taken in New Jersey, even though she is European (she came out to the U.S. briefly, then returned home). So, I don’t know if her clothes are American or European.

Can anyone narrow the date down more based on her dress style, shape of her blouse sleeves etc.?

It looks as if she is holding a file folder; it doesn’t look like a purse to me. What is she holding?

The seat back of the chair looks like wicker in a spot, with iron supports. I suppose that is a potted tall rose bush or similar plant next to her.

Thank you!

 

She's not terribly old there but her hair is up so at least 15 or a tad older. And she's holding a book which tells the viewer she was still a student. To my eye, her blouse has a slight pouter pigeon silhouette with the fullness of leg o' mutton sleeves but it's worn with a full skirt so I'd think 1895 to 1900. Not an expert so that's a guess. Into the 1900s the blouse would become fuller at the waist and the skirt would narrow significantly. Let's see what others think.

Debora

 

I agree with Debora on the date range. The only doubt for me is, if she was European the styles may or may not have been slightly different in timing. Which country did she come from? Also, in the 1890s women and girls tended to wear their hair in curly bangs ("fringe") across their foreheads. But that wasn't universal.

From what I can see of the studio setting, it does look like the style of the 1890s, or very early 1900s.

I see the edges of a mat around the photo. The mat appears to be beveled more deeply than a typical card mount would be. Is this picture in a frame? If not framed, but on a card mount, can you show the entire mount? It's sometimes possible to narrow down a date by the style of the card mounts.

 

Yes, re the full image please. If possible. Speaking generally... OPs often crop photographs but it's unhelpful.

Debora

 

She's so young. Her hair might very well still be in a plait which would explain the lack of fullness.

Debora

 

Yes, I was thinking that. I have a couple of photos somewhere from that general era that had the front of the hair like that, but the back is not showing. I think both of them are of women a little older than this girl.

 

It would help a lot if we knew where 'home' was. Today there are ca 50 countries in Europe, with even more cultures. Depending on where she was from, her style of clothing and hairstyle could have been influenced by a regional tradition.

 

Very true. For instance, that skirt does not look American in fashion.

Debora

 

Ooops. Sorry, @Sedona , I didn't notice that you already mentioned this.

What is the size of the image? Not sure if that would completely resolve the question, but maybe would help. And also the European country.

 

Could be Italy. Not a full regional costume, just some influence.

 

Exactly. A regional influence. The type of thing found in a small town and a household of careful means.

Debora

 

My thinking as well.

 

Thanks, everyone.

My great grandmother was from Hungary. My grandmother emigrated to the U.S. in 1937, as a young woman in her 20s. My great grandmother died when my grandmother was around 5 years old, in Hungary.

So, when I was growing up, the country was under Communist rule, and we could not visit any of our relatives there. My late mother reached out to her relatives after 1990 (her father was from Hungary as well, so she had cousins on both sides). My mother received this photograph from her cousins much later. That is, this is not a photograph my grandmother or my mother had for decades. It was the only photograph my mom had of her maternal grandmother. It was a reproduction photograph that is approximately 5”x7”. My mother had it framed and matted. She was told by her cousins that it was taken in Passaic, New Jersey. My great grandmother came back to Hungary and married my great grandfather. We did not know any of this until the last few decades.

So, my best guess is that my great grandmother was around 18-20 years old in this photo. If she died more or less around 1918, while still a young mother, I’m guessing that this photo was taken around 10-15 years before her death. She was in a very small village (not Budapest by any means) so I can’t get any records of her date of birth, death etc. This is the best that I can do.

 

I think 18-20 is a bit too old. If she were that old, her hair would be more elaborate following the fashion of the time. To my eye, she's 14, 15 or 16. A school girl. Did she die in the Spanish flu pandemic? And did she live in Passaic proper? What was her maiden surname?

Debora

 

That would make sense with the skirt too, inspired by a certain Hungarian tradition.
Years ago I wore a Hungarian costume during a performance, it had a flounced skirt and a high collar. So stylewise related to what your great-grandmother was wearing. Not like the popular costumes usually seen on Hungarian dancers, but it was genuine, probably from another region. I can't remember the region, but will see if I can find more info.

 

Seconded. She looks about 14. Passaic and other northern New Jersey cities were working class areas with large immigrant populations. It's in a photographer's studio, and was possibly taken after she arrived in NJ to send back home. Or in Hungary right before she left? It could go either way.

 

Thank you... I was wondering whether it was a reproduction. So it could have been enlarged when copied. That won't help, then, with figuring out the date it was taken.

 

@Sedona , if it's possible that your great-grandmother was in the US in 1900, she might be found in the census records for that year. Have you tried searching that yet? I was just playing around with it... I didn't know her name, and was guessing birth date range. There were hundreds of females born in Hungary between 1875-1885 in Passaic, New Jersey that year. Many of them were wives of the head of household, so they could be eliminated. The best would be to narrow down by name. Also, it's possible she didn't actually live in Passaic, but in a nearby town.

One good thing about the 1900 U.S. Census was that it had a place for people to state their month and year of birth. Also would show others in the household where she was living.

 

Thank you, everyone.

I am not certain the spelling of her last name. My mother told me her grandmother’s maiden name was Anna Czernei. Could the name have ended with a “y” instead of an “ie”? It’s possible. Her age in the photo is just a guess. I just don’t know how long she was in the U.S. either.

No, unfortunately she died in a terrible house fire. My grandmother was around 5 years old, and went inside the burning house to save her baby sister (which she did). The story I was told was that her mother Anna also went in the house to find her baby, but she stayed inside too long (not knowing that my grandmother had saved the baby). After her death, my great grandfather remarried, so my grandmother was raised by a stepmother (who had a number of children with my great grandfather), and she came here to the U.S. in 1937.

As indicated, my mother never had any photos of her grandmother (her mom hadn’t brought any photos with her), and at some point (maybe 15 years ago?) her Hungarian cousins gave her this photo. They also told her the story of Anna going from Hungary to New Jersey, taking this photo there, and then returning to Hungary and later getting married. So, we have no chronology as far as ages or dates. My mother promptly had the photo framed and matted. I’ve never seen the photo out of the frame. I’ve never seen any childhood photographs of my grandmother, either.

 

What village was she from in Hungary? And who was she visiting in Passaic?

Debora