Featured Help with a badly damaged oil painting with a painting beneath?

Hi All, I picked this painting up for free, I liked the painting & also the frame, I was just gone to give it an amateur clean and daub a bit of similar colour oil over the missing paint but the vivid colours of the painting underneath have got me intrigued, I may attempt to flake off the top painting, can you tell if the painting is in anyway valuable & can you tell by the frame/canvas if the painting underneath could be much older or would it just be one of the artists previous paintings?

Many thanks.

 

It is Polish, in case you were wondering.

 

Most likely one of the artist's previous paintings that he didn't like so he painted over it. No way to tell without removing the over-paint, but it's not such an appealing painting to lose. If you decide to put the work in to remove it, please show and tell how it goes!

 

Could be as anti said. The artist painted over one of his own paintings.

Or
Here in my area we have a lot of artists who buy old paintings at the thrift store for a few dollars and use those canvases for their art.

 

If you like the painting, I wouldn't flake it off.
The one underneath might be a masterpiece, but more than likely you won't like it, like the one that you destroy.
If you don't care, you have nothing to loose.

 

The only non-destructive way you can really tell what's underneath is to use the various imaging techniques used by museums and artwork appraisal techniques. However, you may not have accessibility to the various X-Ray and Imaging Spectroscopy techniques required.

If you are in a position to do so, enquire with some professionals and see if such services might be available to you and if so, at what cost. You can decide whether or not you consider it worthwhile. If the services can be given freely, you have nothing to lose. Otherwise, it will be a gamble of your expenditure over potential gain.

All that aside, 'flaking off' the top layer may simply not be a viable option, as the top layer may be bonded to the underlayer in places, and flaking it off may ended up damaging the painting underneath, spoiling the painting and potential value, should it actually be worth anything. There are proper methods for removing the top layer of paint from such multi-layered painting.

 

That art by the yard painting on top is no loss, no matter what. I'd look up ways to chuck that part off of there and see if you luck out.

 

@MrD, Looking at the back of that canvas, especially in the one corner, and those metal 'clips'(?) holding the canvas? makes me wonder how carefully the canvas was prepared/stretched....leading to wondering about the reason for the flaking or just the thickness of the flaking paint. Nevertheless, I tend to like the winter scene! Is the coloring actually that "yellowish/blue-ish" or just photographing in a dark-ish room?

 

I think the winter painting is lovely, would be a pity to flake it off and find something not so nice beneath

 

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@lloyd249 , how interesting, thank you for pointing this out!

 

The British TV series "Fake or Fortune" worked on a Van Dyke that had been over painted. The restorer used a scalpel to scrape away the over paint.

There are apocryphal stories of masterpieces being over painted with inconsequential images to hide them in times of unrest... and then going missing. If such a thing happened, I would guess the surface of the original was prepared in a way that would facilitate recovery.

 

I think that could work well for this one, thanks, More.

 

Your hands must be a lot steadier than mine.

 

I would dig deeper...... I would have to see what was under that

 

It's not just a matter of scrapping away to the top layer, a particular solution is used to first soften the top layer of paint making it easier to remove from the layer beneath.

 

I'd be dying out of curiosity to know what is hiding there
What about scraping cautiously a little more on other areas where the actual paint is flaking? Just to have more idea of the motif.
Retouches wouldn't be too difficult to cosmetically mask the removed areas if not too extensive
Or send it to Julian Baumgartner the magician restaurer:

 

I have a sneaking hunch that someone painted a tourist oil over a print on canvas. That may be a Van Gogh under there ... print, that is.

This one... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irises_(painting)

 

I would have peeled it of. how about this. I buy it and peel it off and share the end results on this forum.
I dont mind a punt. The less you care about money the easier it comes

 

It is very tempting to peel isn't it? If you went to the trouble to repair it do you like it well enough to live with it (knowing you could always peel it later)?

I picked up a painting that I that I thought I'd like if it just didn't have the little building in the landscape. I carefully painted it out and I don't think anyone could tell where it used to be. The thing is, it didn't make me actually like it better so it's been in a closet somewhere for 20 years or so. Wish it had something underneath