Featured Vienna? Porcelain plates

I just received two of these lovely hand painted porcelain plates bought on eBay.

They are very fine and have the Vienna shield mark but it is more underglaze grey than blue. My Röntgen book shows very similar marks with artists’ numerals in red but not in green.

Any thoughts? The quality of the painting makes me think Vienna mid 19th c

 

OOOH, SWEET!!!! But, sorry, can't otherwise help!

 

I haven't tried looking too far as the beehive/bildenshield was used so many places. I didn't find any ID yet but I was wondering if you've examined your plates with magnification. They have the look of transfer or printing in some places to my eye.

I did find this plate with what looks like the same mark. I'm thinking that her's is a transfer/print or combination of processes but there is no close up good enough to tell. No help I'm sure.

https://www.kattscuriocabinet.net/listing/266411038/antique-royal-vienna-cabinet-plate

 

Really beautiful plates ...envious!

 

I, too, was thinking the the gold was hand painted and the rest transfer. No help with the maker, though.

 

Pretty sure all hand painted but i will have a good look with magnifying glass when home tomorrow.

 

I was looking for a similar plate or mark and came across this. If you compare yours to theirs, I think it's the same image.

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/65851613_hand-pianted-antique-porcelain-duck-plate

 

Thanks for that. I’ve studied both plates under a glass and am certain they are hand painted. The plate in your link is obviously by the same manufacturer.
Here are a few more photos of mine.

 

Hey!

Very nice piece, but not Royal Vienna. There should be numbers printed in porcelain. They are standing for the year.(three numbers) And a number for porcelain "white turner".(Dont know, how to call it better, english is not my motherlanguage. Someone, who created and the white porcelain piece).

Indeed this plate do has painter number, but I think it is from some small manufacture.

Greetings

 

Yes you are right. I am going to sell them as Continental not Vienna

 

When I compare those two pictures they do look identical. If they are printed it's a very clever print as with magnification there appears to be brushstrokes and no dots! I'm going to have another look.

 

I still am wondering if these aren't from a print source. These are images from your two plates and one from a plate from another source. I find it hard to imagine that even a good artist could replicate the image so precisely on different items from different places. The border images are slightly different shape but otherwise seem so like.

I did pull up some info on printing types (though from British sources).






https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/royal-vienna-cobalt-blue-10-4-game-1907913867


http://printedbritishpotteryandporc...pes/overglaze/printing-on-porcelain-1800-1900

http://printedbritishpotteryandporcelain.com/how-was-it-made/lithographic-printing

http://printedbritishpotteryandporc...color-printed-multi-color-printed-earthenware

 

Thanks. You are right. They couldn't be copied to so identically. They must be prints. They are extremely well done. I've been collecting and buying ceramics for
over thirty years and have always felt that I could always tell the difference. Will sell as printed.

 

You're not the only one. There are also the combination of print with wash and hand painted portions (such as gilding). Clear as mud