15TH CENTURY ENGRAVED WOODBLOCK/CUT FOUND. NEED ADVICE!...

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by HMAC, Nov 15, 2018.

  1. Marie Forjan

    Marie Forjan Well-Known Member

    Holy cow, this is a fascinating thread :)
     
  2. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    "I got the information from a Museum Historian in Los Angeles..."

    don't go back there.........;)
     
  3. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

    It’s still an interesting piece, Thank you for sharing it here! :)
     
  4. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Funny thing to find in a Californian attic. But then, as we know from the Forums, things do seem to have a habit of moving about.

    Debora
     
  5. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    If historian was working from a photo of the front without seeing the back, think s/he could be forgiven, although there is the little matter of the end grain.
     
  6. McAdder

    McAdder Well-Known Member

    feuille is also the french word for sheet, so it may only be the translation of paige, seems more probable than to write about the binding method on a woodblock.

    I bet you will not be able to find any 15th century print resembling this.
     
  7. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    A 15th century print would look more like this one.

    Debora

    15th Century Print.jpg
     
  8. HMAC

    HMAC Member

    Here are the dimensions, width is 4'' x 2 3/4 L X 1'' thick. As I can recall the worker at the museum told me it is made out of fruit pear wood. I showed it today to a coin and antiques dealer and he offered me 8k cash or gold coins.
    Now I'm very confused as to what I have. Can it be worth much more?.
    The dealer did tell me that he had collectors interested in this type of artifacts.
    He told me BULLIER is the oldest city in italy & Napolean also walked those streets.
     
  9. HMAC

    HMAC Member

    Did some research and found out RUE DES MARAIS means: street of the MARAIS. MARAIS is a historic aristocratic district in Paris France.
    NOW! My second step is to find the address on the engraved woodcut block as you can see under the words BULLIER APARIS.

    Many thanks to all on this board...
     
  10. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    BULLIER À PARIS Bullier at (in) Paris. As I recall, marais means marsh, but, as you have learned, Le Marais is not a swamp.

    Quick! Take the gold coins before this person snaps out of it.
     
  11. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    The question now: is this the rue des Marais-Saint-Germain, which has been the rue Visconti since 1864, or the rue des Marais-Saint-Martin? Neither appears to be in Le Marais. As a seller of paint brushes, probably shouldn't expect to find them in a posh neighborhood. If rue des Marais was their address when they exhibited their wares in 1867, then Marais-Saint-Martin.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=q...onepage&q=bullier paris paint brushes&f=false
     
  12. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Think there really is no question the item was made in the 19th century. If this source is correct, may have been used in making an edition of the Bible that was a replica, or in the style, of an older one.

    'Wood engraving was more common in the early days of printing - the 15th and 16th centuries.'
    https://www.finerareprints.com/blog-and-tips-about-antique-prints/what-is-an-engraving

    Since these people appraise antique prints, maybe they would also have a good understanding of the plate.
     
  13. bluumz

    bluumz Quite Busy

    According to this source, at 4 Visconti Street was Bullier, a carpenter and modeller, from 1838-1854.
     
  14. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    The link I posted from a 1847 directory has Bullier's business address as "Marais-St-Germ, 4." According to Wikipedia, the street became the Rue Visconti in 1864.

    https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rue_Visconti

    Debora

    800px-Charles_Marville,_Rue_Visconti,_ca._1853–70.jpg
     
  15. bluumz

    bluumz Quite Busy

    Looking at @Bronwen 's photo, it could be a French sort of abbreviation for St Ger under RUE DES MARAIS. After St Ger, it looks like No. 2. Perhaps the address numbers changed at some point or Bullier relocated.
     
  16. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

  17. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

  18. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    I believe this description is misleading. Early prints created with wood blocks were what is usually referred to as "woodcuts". The image was created on the "plank" side of a piece of wood (a surface that would have been in the vertical orientation of the original tree). The term "wood engraving" should be reserved for the technique of creating the design on the cross section of a tight grained wood - typically boxwood, but fruit woods might also be used. Both are relief techniques, where the artist cuts away the areas that will be white in the final print, leaving in relief the sections that will be coated with ink. Woodcuts are usually worked with a knife. Wood engravings are worked with tools similar to those used in metal engraving. The artist can create much more detailed images with a wood engraving. The blocks can also withstand the greater pressure used in mechanical presses.
    The technique of wood engraving was developed and popularized by the English artist Thomas Bewick, toward the end of the eighteenth century. It became widely used in book illustration, and continued in use until largely replaced by photo-engraving techniques in the late 19th century.
    So, the OP's block is a wood engraving, with the image worked on the end grain. This would date it to the 19th century, as others have said. The size is consistent with its likely use as a book illustration.
     
  19. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    As I said:
    [emphasis mine]
     
    Christmasjoy and 2manybooks like this.
  20. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    Because they are relief prints, wood engravings are more compatible with text. They can be worked into a layout essentially like very big pieces of type. So long as everything is the same height, printing is easy. Wood engravings in books and magazines usually (but not always) have text printed on the reverse because the engraving is just another part of a page. Intaglio prints have to be pulled on a press under pressures that would destroy standard hand set type pieces, so they are usually printed on heavier paper than the rest of the text, have no printing on the reverse, and need to be inserted separately into the published material.

    We've seen prints on these boards from the "Picturesque" series (Picturesque America, Picturesque Europe, etc., etc., etc.). Most of the illustrations in those books, and others of the same ilk, were wood engravings. Publications like The London Illustrated News were dependent on them.

    This wood engraving came from an 1873 edition of an American art magazine called The Aldine. I was able to source it because the printing on the back had been digitized and can be found online... easier to find than the image.
    z.jpg

    Here are wood engravings from the 1930s by a woman named Agnes Miller Parker. Books like "Through the Woods" and "Down the River" featuring her engravings (b&w), including full-page plates, used to be cheap, probably still are, and the illustrations are gorgeous:

    https://www.google.ca/search?q=wood+engraving+"Agnes+Miller+Parker"&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi20cyuu9reAhVp0YMKHTLHB8EQ_AUIDigB
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
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