Featured American National Treasure... Or?

Hello,

I found something pretty interesting that I would like the members of the board to give some comments on. From what I can piece together I have two bowls which are identical except one is 12" Dia and the other 9.25" Dia. I believe they are Chinese export porcelain typically called "punch bowls" and are unmarked (typical of Chinese export porcelain). These tend to date pre 1850s. Typically these bowls were decorated with armorial symbols but this one as you can see, has the Great Seal on it three times repeated with rose motifs. The majority of it is transfer decorated filled in with a famille rose enamel and gold detailing. While it may seem crude its quite typical for late 18th century early 19th century export porcelain. I am not really sure what to think about these. Thanks for your opinions!

 

Pretty colors. I just did a quick Google and didn't see any other American Eagle Chinese export in this color combo. I suppose you've done a lot of research and haven't found this color either?

 

Did you say transfer decorated? If there is a transfer it could not be old. The Chinese used to print on porcelain only for a short period in the beginning of 20th C.
What is the foot rim like? I can't tell from the pictures. The inside wall looks dark on the top?

 

I see some examples of the great seal on some pieces but they are not the same as this

 

Transfer decoration has happened since the 18th century, I believe the piece was bought as a blank in China and decorated in America. The foot rim is dark and somewhat iron stained (a reddish brown hue).

 

Since 18th C. Japan, Europe, yes, but not in China.
Why would you buy a blank from there and decorated in US in Chinese export style?

 

Hi,
If it was decorated here it would have 13 stars not 12. the other thing that gives me pause is there are only two images usually Asian have an odd number. When there is two images thay are usually combined to form a different charactor. That being said, I would love to have the bowls no matter where or when they were made.
greg

 

Oddly enough, I have seen the pink before...but Where??

 

Hi Silver,
I have a small piece around here with a rose colored rim. Dang nabbit now I will have to start looking for it and the heck with my schedule. Silver go back to bed
greg

 

Sorry, Greg. Mickey walked over my face. Translated, that means the water dish need to be refilled.

 

This was done in the past.

 

Chinese export refers to the fact the vessel was made for export to the West, not all pieces were decorated by the Chinese. Transfer decorated copies of Chinese designs have been popular since the late 18th century, a good example is the 'Willow Pattern' originally a Chinese design then turned into a transfer and replicated in the West. I am certain when you order one of these bowls you are provided with a book of different transfer patterns and designs to choose from.

 

Greg,

I noticed this too but its just on one of the Seals - all the rest have 13 so I am thinking it was a mistake.

 

So,
During the 18th century someone ordered a blank porcelain bowl from China, that came with a book of transfer patterns and someone in US used those to decorate it?
Never heard of that. Why not just let the Chinese hand paint it with provided by you pattern?
By the way, some of the export pieces were not painted by Chinese artists. They hired European painters to do the job.

 

The willow pattern that the British made was not done on Chinese blanks. Nobody in Europe knew how to make hard paste porcelain.
Clobber ware was Chinese porcelain, usually in underglaze blue that was overdecorated by the Europeans.

 

I wonder if this could be a Samson piece meant to copy the Famile Rose.
Particularly, as Greg pointed out there are 12 stars and not 13.

The Gotheburg site shows the bottom of a Samson bowl (scroll down), also a check list of what to look for.
http://gotheborg.com/qa/samson.shtml

 

Economically speaking, importing 1000 blanks and personalized decoration done in the West is far more profitable than 10 pieces hand painted in this style, 10 pieces in this style etc. The book was simply speculation.

Heres a good example of Chinese export porcelain done for Jefferson. Notice the transfer printed boarder and gold edge.

http://www.americanheritage1.com/white-house-china/thomas-jefferson-presidential-china.htm

 

Clutteredcloset,

As I said previously the missing star only happens on 1/6 of the seals and was probably just a mistake during decoration.

The Samson idea is interesting though. Maybe I will look more into that. Thanks

 

The Chinese actually hand painted everything.

 

There is no way a Chinese porcelain during that times to be transferware even in the slightest extent.
The Jefferson piece has no transfer. The border is hand painted in underglaze cobalt blue and over embellished with gilt.
Plus, I am not sure if it was cheaper to do it in US rather than do all the job in China.