Featured American Pre-Columbian pottery and stone 300-400 d.c.

Hey there, I have a collection for a long time now of pottery vases, figurines and some stone figurines from 300-400 d.c., it´s been in the family for 100 years now and I was wondering if anyone has experience with this kind of items and can tell me a bit more about them, I just now that they are from Guachimontones in the state of Jalisco, México and were brought to Texas around 1950.

 

Those are super cool ! Hopefully there will be someone along to help you. The world of pre Columbian artifacts is a mine field of fakes so tread carefully.I especially like the 1st 2 .

 

Very cool, thanks for showing
My gut says authentic but have no idea about this type

@Any Jewelry

Is probably the one to know the most

 

Super dooper cool

 

There's also all kinds of legal stuff on them now as well. If you find someone to authenticate, you should have some kind of proof of provenance, something to demonstrate that they have been in the family that long. And even then, I don't know that that would make a difference.

 

What makes me think positive about them, is that they must have came from a collector, given the volume of them

 

I've got a good feeling about them

 

u need a museum......and yes....1st check the laws behind ownership...

 

They are beautiful, and they look authentic to me, but with pre-Columbian it is best to handle (and smell) them to be certain. Obviously we can't do that here, and I advise you to seek expert advice. I am no expert, more of an aficionada.
But to give you an idea, imo they are from the neighbouring states of Jalisco and Nayarit.

Unfortunately a lot of looting took place in pre-Columbian sites in the region, especially in the period these were acquired. That is not your fault nor your family's, but as the others advised, it is best to check the legality.

You mentioned Guachimontones, that is near the town of Teuchitlán, and the culture is called after the town.
The first figure with the bowl certainly looks Teuchitlán culture to me. The Teuchitlán period is 300 BCE - ca 500 CE, and this looks fairly early to me.
He is my personal favourite of the group. That characteristic head and the beautiful thin wall of the bowl are wonderful.

The second figure with the elongated head looks Nayarit culture to me, 300 BCE - 400 CE. Nayarit is just north of Jalisco.

The warrior figure, with helmet and armour, looks Ameca-Etzatlán to me, from Jalisco. Timewise 100 BCE - 250 CE

The vessels are from the same general region, but it is difficult for me to specify the cultures.

Also tagging @2manybooks , maybe she can add some more info.

Again, I am no expert, you will have to find a real expert who can be more precise. Maybe contact a university department or a specialised museum.
Will you keep us posted?

 

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As far as I know, Casa del Alabado is specialised in Ecuadorian pre-Columbian art only. It is possible they also have some Peruvian or Colombian.
But since these items are specifically Mexican, it is better to find someone specialised in Mexican pre-Columbian art.

 

I just checked:
"The Casa del Alabado Museum has in its custody around 5000 archaeological objects belonging to ancient societies that occupied the territory known today as Ecuador."

There are hundreds of very diverse pre-Columbian cultures, from all over the Americas. There are also many museums dedicated to their regional cultures. While their curators know a lot about the collections and the cultural backgrounds in their own museums, it is difficult to have expert knowledge on all pre-Columbian cultures.

 

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I would say that the checking of the laws on ownership is paramount to any additional searching. The "brought to Texas around 1950" and their wonderful condition makes this a critical step. Caution is advised.......

 

As @Any Jewelry has said, for authentication of objects such as these it is best to bring them to a knowledgeable specialist. If you and the collection are still in Texas, you might start by contacting the Dallas Museum of Art to see if they have a specialist in pre-columbian Mexican art that could help. If not, they may be able to suggest another option.

If you are simply interested in learning more about a collection that you intend to keep, that is great. If your intent is to begin selling it, that may be more complicated.

From an earlier post on this forum about Mexican antiquities - https://www.antiquers.com/threads/mexican-antiquities-law.71423/#post-4486650 - :

"In 1897, Mexico passed laws stating that any artefacts found within Mexico belonged to the state and the national museum. Artefacts could not leave the nation without an official permit from the government. These laws remain in force, and in 1970 they were supplemented by a UNESCO mandate prohibiting the trafficking of artefacts."
https://www.apollo-magazine.com/mex...ssed laws,official permit from the government.

"Mexico also took action in 1972 by passing the Federal Declaration, effectively converting and vesting ownership of all Mexican pre-Columbian antiquities, discovered or not, to the Mexican Government."
https://texaslawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Phelps.FinalPDF.pdf

So, Mexico has been interested in protecting its heritage for over 100 years. But enforcement has not always been effective. If you tried to sell these items now, in a legitimate market, there would probably be greater requirements for documentation of their origin and history.

 

I step very carefully when it comes to sharing NA,Pre-Columbian or any other type of cultural antiquities online.Our Pics show-up everywhere on the web.I'm sure many more extraordinary things would be shared here,but for the collectors fear of having them seized.
You might email the auction houses-Southey's & Christies/Pre-Columbian Art Dept Curator re: provenance requirements/documents.
Most these items were 'obtained' (wink-wink) from another culture,and not all were joyfully gifted to the recipient.Said culture's ancestors are still very much alive,and many are righteously mightily piss** !

 

these pics have been up for many hours now, and likely the bots have already got them.......

 

there are over 500 guests on the site now as well as 27 bots !

 

Yep-I could do a Private Conversation & Pics w/ Komokwa-I guess Google figures they own it all.
Go ahead & do a google image on your item-some of my posts turned into the first image on the page.

 

If you ever visit Mexico City, there is the wonderful museum of archeology and anthropology housed in Mexican Modernist architecture. Beautiful buildings with an astonishing collection. There are also smaller museums dotted around the country, including several in Jalisco and Nayarit.