Antique Drawing...can someone help me out with European costume/headpiece please?

Discussion in 'Art' started by jollyrancher, May 25, 2018.

  1. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

    Hi everyone,
    I purchased this drawing and am trying to figure out what kind of costume the girl is wearing. I'm thinking perhaps Breton/Brittany, or maybe Spanish or Eastern European/Russian. However, I have not been able to find anything definitive in my searches. Also, look at this paper, I guess it's laid or woven....can you tell me any info about the paper? IMG_1977.jpg What are your thoughts? Thanks so much! IMG_1974.jpg IMG_1984.jpg
     
  2. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    She is a Dutch beauty, wearing a little known costume from the island of Tholen in the province of Zeeland, southwest Netherlands. This dress was worn until ca 1960.
    [​IMG]

    Do you want to keep her, or sell her? (She asked eagerly)
     
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  3. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

    Wow you are amazing! Thank you so much for your help....how on earth did you crack that one?
    As for selling her, I imagine I might, but I'm trying to research some possible markings found on the edge...I'm hoping to be able to figure out an attribution. The paper looks so old, and so do the repairs made to it. When/if I sell, I can let you know if you'd like.
     
  4. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    This was an easy one for me. I am Dutch, and I collect regional costumes.:) I also have some regional dress related prints and sketches.
    I really like her, not just the beautiful 'sluierkap' (veilcap) but the girl is beautiful as well, and I love the expression on her face. The cap is called a sluierkap by some and a 'floddermuts' by others. Floddermuts translates to something like loose, wide cap.
    I get the impression this could have drawn from a photograph, but it is not one I know (I think).
     
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  5. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

    IMG_1975.jpg That is so interesting, thanks again for that info. Do you know how old the paper is? It looks to have very old repairs to it. If the paper predates modern photography, it probably was not drawn from a photo. Here's a pic of one of the repairs.
     
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  6. QuincyAK10

    QuincyAK10 Well-Known Member

    I think it is very difficult to try and date an item by its paper. Your paper is Modern Laid paper which was started to be made around 1800. The narrow spaced lines are called laid lines and the perpendicular lines that are wider spaced are called chain lines. prior to 1800 the process of sucking the water away from the paper would typically have some extra paper remaining at the chain line/laid line joints. After 1800 the suction process improved and this does not show. Wove paper started to become popular in 1780 and was the paper of choice of artists because they did not have to deal with the bumps of laid lines. Here is a site to get you a little more information....I want to go to this camp! I did work at a modern paper mill one summer and have taught elementary paper making to high school students.
    https://collation.folger.edu/2012/06/learning-to-read-old-paper/
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  7. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    What about this paper makes you think it could be older than the photographs AJ showed you to illustrate the costume?
     
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  8. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

    Nothing really, it's just that to my eye the paper predates 1900 or so. When I think photograph, I think of the more modern versions of a photograph, and not a cabinet card or CDV. I was just thinking "modern photograph".
     
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  9. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Western European regional dress evolved more quickly than some other types of regional dress, which makes it easier to date. Judging from the shape of the cap and style of the dress, the sitter was portrayed ca 1910-1920.
    This is what the Tholen cap and dress looked like ca 1850:
    upload_2018-5-26_11-52-46.jpeg
     
  10. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

    Well, that would seem to definitively settle it. The drawing is from 1910-1920, which is just old enough to warrant that paper looking so aged, in my opinion. Thanks again for all your help, Any Jewelry! :)
     
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  11. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Pleasure, of course.
    Some info on the pronunciation, in Dutch th is pronounced as t. So Tholen is pronounced as Tolen. Or stolen without the s.;)
    The capital of the island is also called Tholen.
    [​IMG]
    It is a small historic walled town, which is celebrating 650 yrs of official town rights coming summer. They are already in a party mood:
    [​IMG]
    I hope some people will be wearing traditional dress for the festivities.:happy:
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
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  12. Mill Cove Treasures

    Mill Cove Treasures Well-Known Member

    It looks like stone lithography. Maybe @moreotherstuff will see this. He has more experience with the various types of printing. Just my humble opinion, I think the paper looks older than 1920. There is the possibility that someone used old paper to do the print in 1920.
     
  13. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    I can't tell. There seems to be abrasion to the surface that suggest the pigment is fragile, more so than I might expect with printing inks. Could be paint or ink washes. Not to say it couldn't be a print. It might be a reproduction of a painting.

    It's strange that it's on laid paper. I would expect a print to be on wove, and heavier. But I'm really talking through my hat.

    It looks to me like there may be a watermark on the paper. Hold the paper up to a light to see if there's an embedded mark. I haven't had a lot of luck searching watermarks, but if there is one it might help to ID the paper.
    zzzzbbcaa.jpg
    I see an oval (or a letter C) with rays coming off the outside, and possibly that's just part of something much larger..
     
  14. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

    Tholen looks beautiful! Charming.
    Millcovetreasures, it's definitely an original. I've looked at it very carefully and the charcoal comes off on my hands on on a piece of cotton.
    moreotherstuff, I can't see a watermark. I did hold it up to the light, but it doesn't appear that one is there. What portion of the paper is the photo you posted from?
     
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  15. Huntingtreasure

    Huntingtreasure Well-Known Member

    Looks like this section of your second photo. But I could be wrong. 03E5B40E-1AFA-4D65-86CF-8A89642B3692.jpeg
     
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  16. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

    I'll check again, thanks! btw, your Cav is adorable! I have one too, I'm in LOVE with this sweet breed. tuckertilt.JPG
     
  17. Huntingtreasure

    Huntingtreasure Well-Known Member

    9156B9C7-F045-47B9-B99F-7E1076F5E853.jpeg
    Thanks, I’ve got 2. I’m also partial to blenim, l love yours.!
    Here’s one from Avatar before haircut.
     
  18. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    Huntingtreasure is showing the area in question. If there's something there, and it's away from the actual image, you should be able to see it. If that picture shows some bit on the back of the image itself, you may not be able to, because the pigment of the image will interfere with light transmission.
     
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  19. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

    Awww, he(?) is precious!!!! I love all of them....so sweet. After the Blenheims I like the rubies.
     
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  20. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

    Thanks I will check later tonight.
     
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