Are these busts the same?

Discussion in 'Pottery, Glass, and Porcelain' started by Gatoblanconz, May 6, 2020.

  1. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    They are the same.
    Certainly not. Not Captain Tom Moore either.;)

    [​IMG]
     
  2. sabre123

    sabre123 Well-Known Member

  3. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Oh, the Irish Thomas Moore!
    I used to sing a beautiful Irish song called 'Believe Me', the lyrics were a poem by Thomas Moore. Apparently he wrote it when his wife's face was marked by illness, but he assured her she was still as beautiful as when he first saw her.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
    kyratango, Bronwen and sabre123 like this.
  4. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
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  5. blooey

    blooey Well-Known Member

    Let's get real here ...why would two porcelain companies go to the expense of producing a bust of a subject of identical proportions (and one would think of limited marketability) to compete with each other for that small market?

    Nobody would do this. Obvious the busts are from the same factory.
     
  6. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    This one is really making Internet search a chore. But I do applaud him.
     
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  7. blooey

    blooey Well-Known Member

    Several of their pieces are listed without a maker - the aesthetic pilgrim flask, clearly marked Worcester is listed without attribution also - and I saw several examples like this on the site. Pricey too.
     
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  8. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Think maker's mark was on the underside of the socle. However:

    All the busts made by R & L I could find are sitting on great blocky slabs. Looks like yours was mounted on something round.

    W.H. Goss put some of their busts on a round socle I can't tell apart from the one Copeland used. However, to my eye, work from Goss is not as fine as Copeland's. I agree Copeland most likely maker of this one.

    I think it's a typical Manhattan price. I also notice they are entertaining offers, so may be prepared to sell it for quite a bit less. Suspect they would have trouble moving it even at half price, but perhaps I don't know what style home decorators to the wealthy are doing these days. Loss of the socle & chip seriously diminish the value of yours. At least your isn't stained. Here's a very recent auction of parian ware busts:

    https://www.skinnerinc.com/auctions/3372T/lots/1234
     
  9. clutteredcloset49

    clutteredcloset49 Well-Known Member

    When people are saying not the same person. That may be because there are two different spellings and two different men.
    The one Sabre found seems to be the match.

    I think they are trying to reach the higher echelon of spenders.

    You have to know who your customer is and what they are willing to pay.
    How you intend to sell and where, will be the determining factor of what you ask.
    Not having the stand will decrease the value.

    You could try sending pictures to different auction houses to see what they have to say. They may not be interested because the base is missing.
    Be sure you spell the name correctly.
     
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  10. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    If you copied this out correctly, R&L made a bust of 'my' Thomas More, the one who fell out with Henry VIII, not 'your' Tom Moore, the Irish poet who destroyed Byron's memoirs.
     
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  11. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Same dimple in the chin.
     
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  12. Gatoblanconz

    Gatoblanconz Active Member

    I can find every single detail the same.
     
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  13. Gatoblanconz

    Gatoblanconz Active Member

    Mine is tom moore. I spelled it incorrectly.
    I need to see p230 of that book
     
  14. Gatoblanconz

    Gatoblanconz Active Member

    Quite a big difference in price from the Manhattan shop. From my searches on large Parian busts, they seem to be on the market for between 200 to 1000 dollars on ebay with socle. Do you have any more links that might indicate price? Mine is about 15 inches high.
    I paid 380 Australian dollars so it looks like I paid too much but that's ok it's all a learning process and I actually don't mind it as an ornament in my house anyway. I didn't buy it only for speculative purposes. Although i was hoping it was going to be worth something closer to the Manhattan price.
     
  15. Christmasjoy

    Christmasjoy Well-Known Member

    Not the same ...
     
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  16. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    So do I. The question then becomes whether yours & Seidenberg's are copies of the same sculpture made by 2 different Parian ware makers or 2 examples from the same maker. If you search for 'parian ware Clytie' you will see that some sculptures were reproduced by more than one company. Shakespeare is another. Bevington looks like another possibility for maker. Did find a R&L bust on a round socle that looks like all the others.
     
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  17. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Not the same modeling or not the same man? I can see no differences that can't be accounted for by angle of viewing & lighting. Check out the distinctive eyebrows, for instance. And the folds of the neck scarf. What strikes you as definitely different?
     
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  18. Christmasjoy

    Christmasjoy Well-Known Member

    Not the same modeling. It would be very easy for me to join in with others and agree, but I can't do that. I also have studied it closely .. every crease and cranny .. and I still see the differences !! and I already have posted those differences. I would be more inclined to see it as a reproduction from another company .. but my answer remains the same .. Different. ... Joy.
     
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  19. Gatoblanconz

    Gatoblanconz Active Member

    Are you able to circle the specific differences I can post more photos up close I can't see the differences in the areas you are talking about.
     
  20. Christmasjoy

    Christmasjoy Well-Known Member

    No, I'm not able to ... I have already posted exactly what I SEE !! .. MY REPLY REMAINS THE SAME ... Joy.
     
    Cherryhill likes this.
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