Featured Cameo question

Discussion in 'Jewelry' started by indymom810, Mar 24, 2022.

  1. indymom810

    indymom810 New Member

    277253017_10158354553792343_3947543370624490702_n.jpg 277307052_10158354553807343_3144548556172994967_n.jpg 277297308_10158354553877343_8970686321152770435_n.jpg 277298836_10158354553902343_4286088244372191352_n.jpg I’m hoping someone here can help me find out more about this cameo.It was my grandmother’s as far as I know, but I don't know how to date it. She was born in 1899 and was a Manhattan socialite. The etched name on the back is very difficult to make out because of the angle, but the script is beautiful and says something like Cuunesuelo Fioribti.
    I presume this is a Greek/Roman goddess, but who? And do you know about how old it is?
    Thanks for any input.

  2. KSW

    KSW Well-Known Member

  3. Houseful

    Houseful Well-Known Member

  4. Houseful

    Houseful Well-Known Member

    May be Ariadne wife of Bacchus but wait for others.
  5. bluumz

    bluumz Quite Busy

  6. Darkwing Manor

    Darkwing Manor Well-Known Member

    I've been surprised by Bacchanalian females turning out to be male before!... don't ask....
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  7. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Late to the party, but my 2 cents.

    I have an ongoing disagreement with a dear, dear friend, who is just as knowledgeable about cameos as I am, if not more, about whether this figure, who is seen regularly on some very nice Victorian cameos, is the male god Dionysus/Bacchus (her position) or one of his female followers, a maenad/bacchante (mine). It's pretty much a question of whether or not you see that bulge on the chest as a female breast or a man boob. Probably as a result of all that carousing, Dionysus is typically depicted as having a somewhat soft, effeminate appearance.

    Your figure is wreathed in grape vine - which has somehow become very eroded- carries a bunch of grapes & the pine cone-headed staff called a thyrsus, which is filleted (tied with a ribbon), is draped in a panther skin & a garland of ivy, all attributes connected with the wine god & his devotees.

    Apart from the degree of fullness of the chest, the main variation I see with this figure is in the garland. Yours is ivy. Some like this one by Michelini, are grape vine:

    A9 Shell Bacchante 1.jpg

    Or with leaves & flowers:

    Bacchante Michelini Not 3.JPG

    Whether or not a female figure with Dionysian attributes is his wife Ariadne is a bit of a toss up. Even museum curators & scholars in the field of engraved gems are not always sure whether it is she or a maenad, but the ones that get a firmer identification mainly look like this, wreathed in ivy, no thyrsus or panther skin, & a less ecstatic demeanor:

    Ariadne Q ivy hair down.jpg

    I think it is possible your cameo is from earlier in the Victorian era than the setting that currently holds it. The name on the back, as you can make it out, does not ring any bells for known cameo cutters of the time. Suspect it is the name of an owner. If there is a better photo of the inscription among those that have been blocked, I might be able to say more if I could see it.
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  8. indymom810

    indymom810 New Member

    Thank you! I will try to post more photos (not sure if I can do it from my phone). I was told that the signature is Francesco Cassenecchi. Would you agree? And when you say you thinks it’s earlier in the Victorian period, what are you thinking as far as date? I truly love it and want to know as much about it as possible.
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  9. indymom810

    indymom810 New Member

    01DCDC9E-6936-4F29-BC67-139E9597576C.jpeg 8C582F40-47D4-4AA5-B17D-7A3F56412DA1.jpeg DF6D82F5-2435-4C88-B729-E5E42A432BB7.jpeg 2B2D92E5-13BB-45E2-8328-EB2D1B22609C.jpeg Pics:
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2022
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  10. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Will be extremely interested to see if it is Carnesecchi, as will his descendant Gianpaolo. I see he has added a lot of genealogical material to the site since I last visited. Keep scrolling down: http://www.carnesecchi.eu/incisore1.htm
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  11. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    We crossed paths. From what I can see, does look like Carnesecchi. He tended to sign extremely lightly. I have one cameo that I remembered as being signed but couldn't remember by whom. Looked at it over & over, nearly poked my eye out with the pin, but couldn't find the signature again for the life of me. After cataract surgery, Carnesecchi.
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  12. indymom810

    indymom810 New Member

    So that would date it much earlier than I thought.
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  13. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

  14. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Have you confirmed that it is Carnesecchi by comparing the inscription on yours to the examples of his signature shown on the web site? If so, would you be willing to have your piece added to the ones already there?
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  15. PepperAnna

    PepperAnna Well-Known Member

    Hi All, didn't see this thread until today. Indymom and I are part of a cameo FB group, and she supplied extra pics of the signature. I am sure the cameo is by Carnesecchi. I also provided her a link to Gianpaolo's website.
  16. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    My bad. His name is Pierluigi. Gianpaolo is someone else I know. :confused:
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  17. indymom810

    indymom810 New Member

    I finally emailed him today. (Hubby had a stroke a week after the last post, so it's been a crazy summer. He's almost back to 100% but wow, was he lucky.) I'll be interested what I find out what hGianpaolo has to add to it.
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  18. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Sorry, Indy. That must have been very scary for both of you. Good to hear his health is being restored.

    Don't think Gianpaolo* will have anything more to say about the cameo. He has been learning from Pepper & me when it comes to the cameos. He has been doing the Carnesecchi family genealogy for his son & any interested historians. One of his forebears already has a place in the history books.

    *AAuugghh! My bad again: Pierluigi!
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2022
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