Chinese man kneeling w/lantern old or made to look old?

Discussion in 'Metalware' started by mmarco102, Apr 25, 2024.

  1. mmarco102

    mmarco102 Well-Known Member

    Ok, so Lillei picked this up and wants to know a bit more if possible. At 9.5”(24cm) chinese casting. I guess what I hope to learn is the patina legit or create(something I am still trying to learn more about). So old or man made old modern? Would his facial features coincide with age? Was this for a candle or just decorative? Else I hope you enjoy looking and I appreciate your time. :cool:

    I am always hesitant when I see watering dirt far up underneath, and the only justification I can use in my imagination would be that at one time or another this piece was subjected to a monsoon that flooded the small village in the mountainous regions. ;) . Hey, it does happen over there. :hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:

    Thanking all.
    IMG_4637.jpeg IMG_4639.jpeg IMG_4645.jpeg IMG_4647.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2024
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  2. shamster

    shamster Well-Known Member

    R.jpg
    You may want to see this. It's called Changxin lantern (长信宫灯), manufactured in Western Han and is one of the famous artifacts in China lol

    Btw this one is a woman, so perhaps yours as well and seemingly proven by the hairstyle on the back
     
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  3. shamster

    shamster Well-Known Member

  4. Boland

    Boland Well-Known Member

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  5. mmarco102

    mmarco102 Well-Known Member

    That answers all my questions, thank you @shamster. *thumbs-up* Very interesting and informative.
     
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  6. shamster

    shamster Well-Known Member

    Your suspicion is rignt lol, I'm no expert in Chinese antiques but imo the chance of getting an authentic example of such top-rated object is almost 0 unless it costs a chateau
     
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  7. mmarco102

    mmarco102 Well-Known Member

    Amazing the crap and lies on eBay on this item. All old, all rare, all ship from China. :hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:
     
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  8. shamster

    shamster Well-Known Member

    well it still makes sense since you're buying Chinese 'antique'. You can find hundreds of people buying authentic Roman gold jewellery from Thailand on etsy:D
     
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  9. mmarco102

    mmarco102 Well-Known Member

    My only question left if someone knows is what is wrong with the patina? I mean, are there any flags apparent to look for or is it more knowing true patina than identifying fake?
     
  10. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    It is more oxidization than patina. Patina comes with wear, tiny scratches that make a metal look 'softer', for lack of a better word.

    Most oxidization colours can be faked. Corrosion can also be faked.
    But the complexity colours and textures of naturally oxidized metals of that age is difficult, if not impossible, to fake.

    The oxidization on your lantern bearer looks artificial to me, but that is just my opinion.
    It could have been made/faked some time ago, maybe in the first decades of the 20th century, but I would need to see more of the base.
    Imo the dark blotches aren't natural, and after those were added, the item was probably buried in moist soil for a while. That is how you get the verdigris patches on top of both the copper and the dark blotches.
    If the soil in the crevices doesn't wash off, it could have been mixed with glue, another method fakers use.

    But more importantly, your lantern bearer lacks the finesse of the genuine piece. Fakes often have similar mask-like faces, whereas the genuine lantern bearer has a beautiful and delicate little face. To me that is the first sign, after which you look at the surface of the metal.

    That said, yours is still a charming piece, and though fake, possibly an antique fake.;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2024
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  11. shamster

    shamster Well-Known Member

    the face is a great clue, I would say also be careful with faces that are too 'modern' - considering it is a 2000 years old piece, the beauty standard would be very different and usually seems strange to modern eyes on the first glance. But when you take a closer look you can see the finesse it was executed with back to that time. Really need to see a quantity of real and fake pieces to spot that subtle difference
     
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  12. mmarco102

    mmarco102 Well-Known Member

    :kiss: Thank you for that info, it is very helpful for me.

    Considering the original Changxin Palace Lantern was unearthed in 1968 via @shamster link, I doubt very much it can be older. Unless they have been found earlier in lesser quality prior.

    thanks again :)
     
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  13. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    True, I forgot about that.:banghead::shame: But I did say I would need to see more of the base to say anything for sure.;)
     
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  14. mmarco102

    mmarco102 Well-Known Member

    Very true, but had no reference to the original, so no starting point. Thanks :wacky:
     
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  15. shamster

    shamster Well-Known Member

    It's quantity haha, I mean you need to compare a lot of new and old pieces, and spot the modern logic of portraying figures and faces underneath, this method is widely used in painted ceramic with figure as well
     
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  16. shamster

    shamster Well-Known Member

    But not necessary unpleasant to modern eyes haha, rather a feeling or instinct, this one for example is stil very pretty, so it's rather experience, just always search for more and learn more download.png
     
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