Featured COA on Dutch? Cannon needs ID pls

It's nice to hear that you have so much faith in this group here,, and you seem to be pretty good at the web search yourself !!!!

It's an elegant cannon.....

 

from Wikipedia:
Since 1581, when the Dutch people renounced Phillip II as their king, the Dutch have not had a monarch to grant coats of arms to deserving individuals. Coats of arms have been granted to Dutch nobles since 1815 by Royal Decree and registered by the High Court of Nobility. Since 1945 anyone may establish a coat of arms and have it registered with the Central Office for Genealogy, in ’s-Gravenhage.

If one of your ancestors was a public official such as an alderman, sheriff, mayor, or notary there is a great chance that he used a seal of his family crest. Many of these can be found in the Muschart Collection (compiled by R. T. Muschart), available at the Central Office for Genealogy

You can go through these pages (I haven't):
http://www.heraldischedatabank.nl/databank/indeling/gallery?q_searchfield=muschart

1697 was the end of the 9 Years War and the signing of the Treaty of Ryswick, so maybe it's commemorative.

 

Tried to post this info last night, but the site didn't want to cooperate. The Dutch word "schepen" which was translated in whatever program Susan was using as "ships" was the word used in New Amsterdam records as the term we would think of as "sheriff."

Thanks to MOS for reminding me.

 

Thanks again. I will look at pages MOS linked to possible low hanging fruit among the COA's pictured.

I'm of half a mind to set my friend on that task for his cannon, I'm not charging him to do this.

One thing I think I need to understand better is some of the prefixes/titles/whatever they are that I'm seeing. The para in Dutch I posted above gives a name as "MR Jacob van Foreest". I'm pretty sure the MR is not an abbreviation for mister as in English because few of the other men on the same list had that prefix.

Anyone know?

Similarly I'm wondering if the R in "J.R. v. F." isn't some part of a title or prefix despite how it occurs between other parts of his name. In Europe back when, a lot of that went on-first name-title-last name or office he holds.

 

I sent their Central Genealogy Bureau an email; no idea if a response will come but easy to do, so...

Hallo! mijn vriend heeft een kleine Nederlandse kanon. hij wil de oorspronkelijke eigenaar te identificeren. Cannon is goed aangegeven . Ik heb veel foto's in deze discussie te zetten. denken we dat de initialen mighr verwijzen naar Jacob van Foreest . we kunnen het wapen niet interpreteren met zwarte "S" op wit schild . Kan je adviseren?

https://www.antiquers.com/threads/coa-on-dutch-cannon-needs-id-pls.10526/

bedankt
John

 

Amazing-a very kind person at the CBG answered my email quickly and although I haven't translated it yet, went to the included link to the COA I was trying to interpret (I had the colors right!): Turns out to be Von Adelsheim

This is great progress, what a wonderful person who would do this for a complete stranger in a foreign country no less!

------

Beste John,

Van Foreest zie ik niet... dat is een heel ander wapen.
De schildvorm en de parelkroon wijzen veel eerder in de richting van Duitsland.
De wapenfiguur is een zwarte (rams)hoorn, niets anders.
Onderstaande link toont het wapen van een gelijksoortig Duits geslacht met (bijna) identiek wapen.
https://heraldik-wiki.de/wiki/Datei:Coat_of_arms_family_de_von_Adelsheim.JPG

De naam Von Adelsheim correspondeert niet met de initialen van "von F[...]".

Het zou voor ons goed te doen zijn om uit te zoeken wiens wapen op het kanon staat.
Kosten zijn € 74,00 per uur. Daarvoor kan je contact opnemen met mijn collega Yvonne Prins: yvonne.prins@cbg.nl


met vriendelijke groet/With kind regards,
Guus van Breugel
Productbeheerder
CBG |Centrum voor familiegeschiedenis
Netherlands Centre for Family History
PO Box 11755
2502 AT Den Haag
T: +31-(0)70-315 0538
E: guus.vanbreugel@cbg.nl
W: www.cbg.nl

 

Here's a robot translation with some corrections by me where the robot fails:

Of Foreest I do not see ... that's a different COA.
The shield shape and the crown jewel point much earlier in the direction of Germany .
The COA is a black figure ( ram ) horn, nothing else.
The link below shows the arm of a similar German sex with (almost) identical weapon.
https://heraldik-wiki.de/wiki/Datei:Coat_of_arms_family_de_von_Adelsheim.JPG

The name von Adelsheim does not correspond with the initials " von F [ ... ]" .

It would do well for us to find out whose COA is on the gun .
Cost is € 74.00 per hour. For this you can contact my colleague Yvonne Prince: yvonne.prins@cbg.nl


with kind regards,

 

Since the black horn COA also represents Adelsheim, Germany, I suspect that's what it means on the cannon, and the initials below it are for a person, an estate, etc. and will now look in that direction. I will invite my friend to hire the Dutch researcher if he wants to do so.
...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelsheim

 

My email to the town:

Lieber Herr,
Ein Freund hat eine Kanone aus Adelsheim . Oder zumindest hat die Kanone die Marke von Adelsheim . Ich versuche, ihm den ursprünglichen Besitzer identifizieren zu helfen. Die Bronze- Lauf ist etwa 72 cm lang, mit einer viel längeren Holzschlitten. Wir haben keine Ahnung von der Bedeutung der Initialen unterhalb der Stadtmarke . Sie sind " J.R.v.F. " Ich werde ein Foto anhängen . Bitte geben Sie mir Ihre Gedanken .

Vielen Dank

(My name)
historischer Berater

 

No word from the town, but I'm thinking it is unlikely the cannon has anything to do with the town. I do think the initials are for an individual, and his or her family name is "von F..." There are many family branch names associated with the von Adelsheim family, looking in this book. https://books.google.com/books?id=g...kQ6AEIEDAC#v=onepage&q=adelsheim 1697&f=false

Tables 180-202 contain many hundreds of von Adelsheims and a much smaller number of people with other family names under the von Adelsheim umbrella. I spent a good while looking and didn't find a match for initials "j.r. von f" but due to the scan quality and the fact that the pages are in German script, I could easily have missed it.

If you can find it, I'd greatly appreciate any help. Obviously you'll need to be familiar with what the German script version of each letter looks like.

 

This is the closest I could find, the vertical horn and the v.F. for
von Fechenbach.

https://www.google.com/search?q="vo...en&tbm=isch&q="von+Fechenbach"+wappen&imgrc=_

 

Thanks much, looks like you cracked the code! That led me quickly to the exact individual who fits all perfectly, Johann Reinhard, Freiherr von Fechenbach.

Freiherr is a title roughly equivalent of Baron, which fits the particular 7-pearled baronial crown depicted on the cannon.

http://geneall.net/de/name/1647536/johann-reinhard-freiherr-von-fechenbach/

 

I was confident you'd find a match for J.R. once you had von Fechenbach.

 

Here is another cannon von Fechenbach.

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...0002/lot-323a6d83-b0e2-4b14-bf14-a46e00011c1b

 

Thanks again-that gives info on the person which I wasn't able to find on the web. The auction cannon has far less info marked on it so the auction house must have guessed that orig owner was J.R. Von F. I suspect the auction cannon may have belonged to our baron's father or son because it would be unusual for one person to have non-matching cannons of this type. In every other case I've seen, an even number of matching cannons were all made on one order at one time.