Dating HB Hall & Sons Engraving

I'm trying to get a ballpark date on this item so I can narrow down the ID of the subject (not to sell it, please don't worry about the condition/value).

But I've not found any info on how long the engraving company was in business (apparently, several family members were skilled engravers, so the death of anyone is not all that telling... as best I can tell).

Also feel free to play "what's the name written here?" -- I think I know, but I have been certain of such things before and gone down the wrong road because of a misread letter.

And if you have any other thoughts on dating (aside from the HB Hall stuff), please share... or play "guess how old the subject is in the picture..."

 

It's late Victorian.

Debora

 

I'm not sure where this Find A Grave author got the information, but based on what this says, " After 1860, he was joined by his sons, Henry Bryan Hall, Jr., Charles Bryan Hall, and Alfred Bryan Hall, and the firm became H. B. Hall & Sons. After H. B. Hall, Sr. died in 1884, the firm became H. B. Hall's Sons. "
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/122729933/henry-bryan-hall

So it appears the firm had that name from 1860-1884, if this is correct. I can see that they did many many of these sorts of portraits.

 

I think to identify more closely what the date would be you'll either have to get lucky in finding an accurate date on the Web for this picture, OR find an extensive catalog of the products of the company. Such a catalog probably does exist somewhere. Also, accurately identifying the subject would be good.

 

Oooh, nicely done, Fig. I realize the info isn't properly sourced, but for my purposes, it's a big hint.

In truth, once I properly ID the subject, I don't care about the piece itself.

Although it's mostly a puzzle I'm trying to solve for the entertainment of the puzzle, if it works out there's some family genealogist researching him, I'll pass this piece on to them.

 

Often I can make out older handwriting, but this one has some curlicues that would take more concentration to puzzle out. And signatures can be the worst!

 

I'm assuming that to ID the subject one only has to decipher the handwriting below? Well, here are a list of Victorian abbreviations of first names. As you will see, "Jac" is short for James.

http://www.genealogyintime.com/dictionaries/list-of-first-name-abbreviations.html

Debora

 

I would think 1880-ish, a steel engraving, likely the frontispiece of a book by, or about, the subject. Jacques somebody?

 

This is interesting. Had you seen this?
Hall didn't come to the US until 1850. Died in 1884
http://www.walterscott.lib.ed.ac.uk/portraits/engravers/hall.html

 

I'm trying to find the history of the street address. 62 Eblton St. NY. What comes up is Bolton St. Trying that doesn't seem to work either.

Maybe someone else will have luck trying it.

 

Here's a collection of Hall & Sons work you can search.

http://dlib.nyu.edu/findingaids/html/nyhs/hall/dscref744.html

Debora

It's Fulton Street.

Debora

 

Try James Oberman (sniped!). The first name looks like Jas, also short for James. The last name is almost a dead cert.

He might even be in the veteran rolls for the New York area. He's about the right age.

 

Here's a vintage photograph of an H. B. Hall & Sons display kiosk near their premises.

http://dcmny.org/islandora/object/nyhs:2159/datastream/OBJ/view

Debora

 

did you already try it with double-n at the end ?

 

I'm on a trail that is at least interesting... there was a Jacob Obermann Brewing Co in Milwaukee. More details if it pans out... and a more effusive thank you for everyone participating -- even some of the smallest details (like that second "n") makes a difference in research trails!

 

Just found someone on ancestry.com that has a rubbish copy of the exact same engraving (probably appeared in a newspaper at one time) for the beer brewing Jacob Obermann. This is not proof.

But it's very exciting... if you like this sort of thing.

 

Per the "The United States biographical dictionary and portrait gallery of eminent and self-made men 1875" (found on google's free ebooks, published in 1877), this engraving is indeed of the aforementioned brewer, Jacob Obermann (1819 - 1887).

And it appears (from the book's preface) that the included engravings were done for the book, so there's that date.

I'm pretty happy right now.

Especially given (before posting) I had been researching someone with the last name "oLberman" -- how I got there I don't know, but this is why I ask for fresh eyes on research that's going nowhere. Besides killing the "L", the second "n" was crucial to the (relatively) quick find.

I could now go on and on about Mr. Obermann, but it's unlikely anyone cares, so my effusive and most heartfelt thanks to all. I will now see if I can find any direct descendants who would like this little trinket.

(just in case anyone does care, the following -- from the aforementioned book)