Don't mean to be a bummer, but...

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by User 67, May 26, 2014.

  1. User 67

    User 67 Active Member

    I bought and sold my first antique when I was 12 years old. I purchase an art deco mohair couch at a neighbours garage sale with my allowance money and promised my older bother a cut if he would help me deliver it to an antique shop. Since then, I have been a picker, worked flea markets and been a shop owner. I have accumulated and sold several great collections (the only one I truely regret selling is the button collection I started at 16, that eventually filled two hall closets and I had to sell at 23).

    I would like to think that I have since met every type of antiques dealer from the most devious to the most kind and generous. But there is one thing that has always turned me off about certain antiques dealers and that is the propensity to blow smoke up each others ars.

    Now I have to couch that statement with 'certain', when in fact I mean 'many'. Generally, when a dealer gets miffed by any kind of authority, like eBay or Lithium, they stomp off in a huff saying, "I'll make my own site."

    My question to the admins is, is this just going to be another site where dealers sit around and admire each others ..., and anyone who has anything to say against the underhanded practices of 'certain' dealers is going to be quickly squelched, or is this going to be a site where egos may be checked and honesty and truth will be allowed? (listen, I have received death threats from dealers at the eBay boards who disagreed with me.)

    I am grateful that I was invited to join, but I would kind of like to know, before I waste my time, if this site will be vanglorious and just another circle jerk of antiques dealers, or if it really is for collectors and sellers to share their knowlege. If that question sounds challanging, I might be sorry, but for my experience with similar sites.

    In other words, if you start your answer with "We want to craft a site that is appreciative and celebrating of..." I got my answer. However, if your answer is along the lines of "We know what you mean, and yes, we encourage and support all viewpoints on antiquing no matter how painful they may turn out to be" then you have invited the right person.

    PS, I am the worstest spelter and I can't find the spell check button on this forum and I just can't be bothered otherwise.
  2. tyeldom3

    tyeldom3 Well-Known Member

    Here's my 2 cents, for what it's worth......I am a small time ebay seller. Just started about 2 1/2 years ago, due to staying home with my young daughter who has epilepsy. I had no knowledge of antiques and the like until a few years ago when I found these kind, generous & willing to help members. I have learned so very much from them, and still continue to learn everyday.
    I am not an antiques dealer, heck I'm lucky to find a decent "antique", once in a blue moon. But because of these members, I continue to grow and learn.
    I know none of this really helps with your questions, but I just wanted to share one point of view.
    User 67 likes this.
  3. antidiem

    antidiem Well-Known Member

    Any group site is what WE make of it and if one dislikes what the administration does, we are free to leave.

    I dislike theatrics. I think the flouncin' and pouncin' and movin' of postings elsewhere has been ridiculous to the max. I want my life to contain much less drama than I've experienced in the past on boards over there. I've had my share of "threats" over there too, but I decline to be threatened by threats. I want low stress. I want pleasant communication with simple facts that can be offered from members here who are much more knowledgeable than I am. I intend to offer up any information about other members' items I can help with in kind.

    So far I feel comfortable with the admins here.

    I have always been a truth seeker.
  4. Bev aka thelmasstuff

    Bev aka thelmasstuff Colored pencil artist extraordinaire ;)

    From what I've gleaned in the few days I've been here, this forum is made up of the old time "regulars" from the Antiques board (and I expect a few will be joining us from other boards as they either shut down or curtail activities) who have done their best to give advice back & forth. My parents had second hand stores and did flea markets and I was working with them by the time I was 8. There is still a lot I don't know and I am always looking for new information.

    Your posting sounds as if you had some issues with folks, but hopefully that won't be the case here. However, on public forums you have to expect some disagreements. Those of the regulars I see posting here have not, in the past, been the type to be "jerks." That's why we were invited here - because we were the positive ones who didn't get into arguments - except that one troll who just likes to argue with everyone for the fun of it. I'd hate to think that anyone is going to come here expecting trouble.
    Mill Cove Treasures and User 38 like this.
  5. Peter T Davis

    Peter T Davis Administrator Moderator

    To get straight to this question... this community will be whatever you guys make it into. You're the first in, you get to set the tone, you get to invite in who you want to invite in, etc.
  6. Bev aka thelmasstuff

    Bev aka thelmasstuff Colored pencil artist extraordinaire ;)

    We want a kinder and gentler board with no trolls
  7. User 67

    User 67 Active Member

    Thank you, and everyone else for responding. I tend to put a lot of thought into my posts and my concern was if the admin wanted this site to be about antiques or about feeding each others egos, as I have seen at certain craft sites and collectible forums.

    I can be blunt, if I see that something is blatently false, I might write "you're wrong" likewise if I am unsure, I would write "I imagine it as..." or " I see this as..."

    At some sites it seems that all opinions need to be coated in sugar, or else they will be deemed trolling. I am not sure who the troll was at the other board, but since I was invited by an admin to join, I'm just glad it wasn't me ;)!

    I promise to behave.:)
    Last edited: May 26, 2014
  8. Figtree3

    Figtree3 What would you do if you weren't afraid?

    I agree with that... you don't have to sugar coat things, but also don't want a bunch of meanness just for the sake of it.

    Most of the people here know that I'm not a dealer at all. I dipped my toe into the water of selling on eBay for about a year, and also for about a year or two rented a small space in an antique mall. Didn't make money at either endeavor, and that is probably because my business sense is underdeveloped, to say the least.

    However, I've learned a lot from reading and posting. and I'm a librarian at a university and am pretty good at searching for information... and every now and then post one of my own items.
    Mill Cove Treasures likes this.
  9. 42Skeezix

    42Skeezix Moderator Moderator

    I dunno.

    I just like antiques.

    Been foolin' 'round with 'em nigh on half a century now.

    I picked up a thing 'r two, coupla tricks of the trade, spent a few bucks, made a few more. A LOT of REALLY GREAT people taught me a LOT of VALUABLE inside 'tiquer stuff over the years. Here I get to pay it forward and I do that with the greatest sincerity...and yet I also learn. There is always something more and this board is as much a learning experience to me.

    And as important as any of the above, this is a place where friendly folks with an interest in antiques and vintage collectables can come and enjoy each others company.....unmolested.

    It looks like we've got a great bunch of friendly knowledgeable folks coming ashore on our 'Tiquers Pitcairn. We've got our huts thatched and antiquing has commenced.
  10. Bookahtoo

    Bookahtoo Moderator Moderator

    :woot: Most of those original Pitcairners came to a very nasty end. That won't happen to us.... :joyful:
    Bev aka thelmasstuff likes this.
  11. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    Yep - we're not letting digital smallpox in the door. There have been a lot of trolls on the Ebay boards over the years. The jewelry board drove theirs off, except for the ones who lurk and report posts for the heck of it. As for me, I'm a distinctly small time dealer and slightly larger time hoarder of anything sufficiently cool or weird that it attracts my attention. Or my magpie instincts. Most of what I deal with is jewelry, but you never know.
  12. fidbald

    fidbald Well-Known Member

    from my side nothing to say against being blunt. I think most of us can take it when proven completely wrong. but in the sense of these fora also being a learning experience for many, it would be nice to give good sources and links then. and perhaps being tolerant enough in some occasions and trying to understand why the other person came to a completely wrong or other conclusion. example: we once had a heated discussion about antique Westerwald saltglaze and I was wondering why the English speakers were so stubborn about certain particularities and found out that the technical terms in use are not congruent with the German ones - and for quite a long time, actually since collectors/historians/scientists started to make up classifications in the 19th c.

    as for this thing called Political Ccorrectness that was so boring on ebay: that's a made up thing of hypocrites - mainly in politics - to prohibit other opinions.
  13. User 67

    User 67 Active Member

    Where do I go to get checked for digital smallpox? It sounds like a terrible virus.

    I don't know how anyone would know that another person was "reporting posts for the heck of it" unless they are making an assumption because the mods removed one of their posts for inappropriate content. Either that poster was wrong for posting inappropriate content or the Mods were wrong and out of line -it has nothing to do with who, why or even if it was reported or just noticed by a mod. I see there is a report button here, as well. Are we asking that folks do not use it, because it might upset certain users if we report their posts?

    fidbald, you suggest that if a person is blunt that they look at this as a teaching experience and "it would be nice to give good sources and links then." Honestly, this is an open and free forum. There are many kinds of teachers and many kinds of students. We all have different techniques and desires. Some teachers really only want to show off and get applause, some students are only interested in finding out if their widgit is worth $10,000 so they can pay off their mortgage, otherwise they can't be bothered with learning other information.

    When I post, I call them like I see them and I do make assumptions about what the 'student' wants to know and how much they are willing to learn. But I always try to answer the question that is asked, and don't like to make assumptions and write long winded answers. For instance, if the poster asks, Do you think this is the original Fiestaware orange or the reproduction? If I knew the answer, I might say, "from the photo it looks like the repro, the original orange from the 1930's tended more toward a reddish or deep pumpkin orange, the later is more of a tangerine, but the only way to tell for sure is to compare them side by side." (I made this up as an example, btw)

    I wouldn't answer with a 1,000 word essay that read like a wikipedia entry "Fiestaware started manufacture in .... their first line was made of 13 different colors... In 1942.... by the 1990's, they had made a range of 52 colors that included .... The rarest colors are.... Your dish is worth..." Because none of that is what the person asked, and they may not even be interested in knowing (otherwise they would have asked), so I am wasting my time.

    Now, your teaching style might be completely different than mine. If I write "You are wrong in your assumption about that frame, It is from the 1920s" You are more than welcome to be nice and follow up my answer and to give good sources and links to back up my claim if you think that it would be of use to the questioner.

    And if you believe that I am being intolerant, and not trying to understand why the other person came to a completely wrong or other conclusion, you can definitely step in to help mollify and explain the situation. You may even explain to the asker, why I might came off as intolerant and came to a completely different conclusion.

    I have moderated my own forums and forums for others. I have found that any time someone disagrees they can, and often are, called a troll, because they happened to raise your ire. A real troll has no stake or interest in the discussion except to make someone angry, perhaps they had a bad sales week, or their wife left them and being a troll is akin to kicking the dog. They want to see someone else in pain. As a note to all, the best method of dealing with a troll is with kindness and humor, something a troll can never stand. "Thank you for your opinion, we have never heard anything quite like that, before you joined." "Thank you" to every comment, acknowledges the troll, yet takes the steam out of his sails, from there you find out who is a troll and who isn't.

    As someone who was in the business of selling antiques, was a picker, owned a store (let it go for health reasons) I understand the desire for some dealers to belly ache about customers, and that's fine to do at a private coffee clutch in the backroom of your shop. But in a public forum, I don't see how it reflects well on the antique seller community. And as a collector, now, it is offensive and divisive.

    FBay uses and nurtures the negative elements of dealers fragile egos, by covertly, when not actively, pitting sellers against buyers (Like the King of Saudi Arabia blaming all of his peoples problems on the USA). Indeed, some dealers seem to revel in dissing and hissing at the buyers they earn their income from. Not only is that unprofessional, but it is one thing that makes the fBay boards so intolerable. I am hoping that these boards will be different.

    Political Correctness is a polite (and politic) way of saying "do the right thing" or "don't act like a bigot". I am reminded of a speech that I had arranged for a State Senator at a youth concert in the late 1970s. I introduced him to his sign language interpreter, and then he asked me "what do we need her for?" Being unaware that some of his constituents may be deaf, I explained "it's politically correct." He had never heard the term or concept before. Most people, when it get's down to it, try to follow the Golden Rule and do unto others, and they are unafraid of Political Correctness. But I find that people who dis and spew about Political Correctness (Hypocrites, prohibit opinions) are people who wish to remain bigots or are uninterested in doing the right thing -just my opinion based on experience.

    If you find these statements provocative, fine. If you think I am being a troll, I am at the wrong forums.
  14. daveydempsey

    daveydempsey Moderator Moderator

    We had one Troll on the eBay Antiques Forum, he isn`t nor has been an antique dealer, seller or collector.
    His main aim in life was to disrupt the day to day running of the forum by giving false information on the identification and preservation of antiques.
    He delighted in engaging folks into disagreeing with him so he could then report them to the eBay mods, 99% of the time they sanctioned the other party and the Troll scored points.
    Many members reported the troll for genuine rule breaking and nothing happened.
    The eBay Antique Forum is closing down in its present form and becoming a part of a larger group which will be harder to navigate and it will cease being a happy community.
    The Troll will remain.
    We have relocated here and hopefully many will follow.
    At present it is moderated by myself and Don.
    It is a self moderated forum.
    We will know who clicks the "Report" button and for why.
    Frivolous reporting will not be tolerated as was pointed out in the initial invite..
  15. User 67

    User 67 Active Member

    Thanks for explaining that, I have noticed that there is a somewhat high level of anxiety, perhaps as a result of that and maybe what I am picking up on. I would like to add this comment.

    I hope that the moderators here are experienced enough to realize that the vigilante troll hunters are just as bad as the trolls.

    I am talking about someone who has at the standby a gif of a spray can of "troll be gone" and they police the boards looking for trouble (isn't that what a troll does?)

    Usually the vigilantes come in threes and fours and fives, like setting a pack of Pitbulls on a snarling, kidnapped poodle being kept in a locked garage. There is rarely anything honorable or kind in their attack against the accused, nor is there an attempt to reform or educate. It is a good old fashioned gang bang filled with a kind of virtual blood lust. That anyone would be proud to be 'geared up' for that, is a little sick, to be honest.

    Let the moderators do their job. Otherwise, you become the problem, not the solution.

  16. Bev aka thelmasstuff

    Bev aka thelmasstuff Colored pencil artist extraordinaire ;)

    Lilfont obviously has not been on the Feebay Antique Board. Those of us who love antiques do not like to see them ruined. Most of us are here because the boards are being either eliminated or garbled so much, it's not worth the aggravation. The troll of whom we speak is a true spoiler. He will give advice that is totally detrimental to the piece. We have all complained to Ebay and we get sanctioned, because they say they have no policy regarding bad advice. We are not vigilantes. We are people who are trying to give good information and encourage newbies, as we call them, to learn to love antiques as well. It's been a bad situation for a couple of years.
    User 48 likes this.
  17. fidbald

    fidbald Well-Known Member

    lilfont, I am okay with most of what you wrote. but what I'm not interested in is guys that tell you all the time what they've already done and how many years they have under their belt in antiques business etc. . without any further proofs. I -as a person living in Europe - don't even know what a State Senator is - something what the the Germans call the Kaiser von China ?
    I think at the moment we need to give it a bit of time and learn to know each other.
  18. User 67

    User 67 Active Member

    Thank you for explaining it, Bev. But, should I feel insulted that you would assume that? I have, indeed, been on the fbay Antique Board and have received many kudos there. I had not noticed the accursed troll you all hate so much, so I can only assume that I have been spared.

    Regardless of that, my previous comment is still valid, let the moderators do their job. Otherwise, you become the problem, not the solution.
  19. Bev aka thelmasstuff

    Bev aka thelmasstuff Colored pencil artist extraordinaire ;)

    Oh, good. A teaching moment. We have State Senators and State Congressmen. The Senate and the House of Representatives are two of our governmental bodies. Then of course we have the Senators and Congressmen who go to Washington DC from each State. Now when I looked up Kasier von China, I got a whole lot of German websites with no translation.
  20. Bev aka thelmasstuff

    Bev aka thelmasstuff Colored pencil artist extraordinaire ;)

    Sorry I don't recognize your ID from the Boards. I believe we are all speaking of Deep Sea Shadow. If you have been immune from his personal attacks, I'm glad for you.
    At this point, I'm going to bow out of this particular thread. It's a little too aggressive and I came here to avoid aggression. Be aware, though, that those of us Ebay Exiles who show up here who have been the subject of some distress are going to have a period of decompression and I believe we deserve it, so be kind to us.
, rro2000, Linda and 5 others like this.
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