Embroidered chair seat, perhaps you can help?

hello
I recently bought a couple of antique chairs with what seem to be embroidered seats. The chairs are French and certainly antique, though the exact age is not clear. I was wondering whether anyone could educate me further about the technical execution, the style and perhaps the thematic ideas that the piece appears to be exploring? There seem to be representations of carved wooden rococo swags (that is to say, literal copies of the chairs wooden elements, rather than just generic, 2-dimensional rococo motifs) and tightly coiled lengths of rope, amongst other elements. Most intriguing is the central image which appears to depict two black ladies, shown from the rear and at a 3/4 angle, looking out to sea. You can see the profiles of their foreheads, cheekbones and chins, if you look closely. They seem to be wearing white headscarves tied at the nape of the neck.
Predominant colour seems to be some kind of red/crimson and what I guess might have been gold? Hard to be sure. Plus, I’m colour blind!
No expertise at all in this area and appreciative of any help that might be forthcoming. Apologies for the poor quality of the images, which were taken by my seller.
Phil.

Chair by Phil Harrison posted Aug 22, 2019 at 9:27 PM

Chair by Phil Harrison posted Aug 22, 2019 at 9:27 PM

Chair by Phil Harrison posted Aug 22, 2019 at 10:04 PM

Chair by Phil Harrison posted Aug 23, 2019 at 5:35 PM

Swag by Phil Harrison posted Aug 24, 2019 at 6:10 PM

 

Phil, where exactly are the two ladies and where is the sea? I think I am looking in the wrong place.

 

Ha ha - I knew you’d say that! I did wonder whether I was having a ‘Jesus’s face in a piece of toast’ hallucination.
I’ll repost the image with some annotations.

 

Your pictures are really not of the resolution to judge, but I strongly strongly suspect this is jacquard loom woven fabric (machine woven), not embroidery.

I'd be shocked if it wasn't.

I do not see the ladies...

 

I agree, Jacquard woven rather than embroidered.

I usually see those, but not your ladies looking out at sea.
I will wait patiently.

 

I can see them, they are looking at the navette shaped thing in the sky above the sea. I don’t think I would have seen them if you hadn’t have pointed it out though and I’m not really sure that black women are what those shapes really are.

 

Best seen on 4th pic at the bottom of the design AJ.

 

I see what you mean now, but I think it is a coincidence. Their necks are disattached from their bodies.

 

Ladies by Phil Harrison posted Aug 24, 2019 at 6:54 PM

Here they are.
1- headscarf
2- forehead
3- cheekbone and eye-socket
4- chin/jaw
5- neck
6- tied headscarf at nape of neck
7 - sea

 

I see what you mean, but as I said, it is just a coincidence. Otherwise their necks and heads would be floating away from their bodies.
Just a leaf motif, just like the one above it. They are green, which you may not be able to see because of your colour blindness.

 

Hello - nor am I - I’m just basing that guess on the relative darkness of their skin relative to the white of the headscarves. I know that France was heavily involved in the European slave trade and so wondered about a potential connection. Have you seen the sun (if that’s what is is) presented in that ovoid form elsewhere?

 

I’m fairly sure those are female heads, inclined away from the viewer at a 3/4 angle. Given the precision of the other elements within the piece I think a leaf would look more inherently leaf like? To me, those areas are the gathered folds of the headscarves.

 

Looks like Jacquard-woven tapestry fabric to me too, and also agree that those are not images of women's heads or the sun...

~Cheryl

 

I don't think it is a sun either.

 

Just looks like a decorative navette shape motif to me (not ovoid)...

~Cheryl

 

If you look very closely at the edges of some of the swags I’ve highlighted with arrows in one of the images, you’ll see a different stitching structure to that which appears elsewhere, as if applied by different means. Does this tell us anything? I know the images aren’t great...

Chair by Phil Harrison posted Aug 22, 2019 at 10:04 PM

 

Phil, by your own logic, if the precision of the other elements is anything to go by, why would the women be green and the sun navette-shaped?

 

Ok, thanks.

 

It tells us it is Jacquard woven.
https://www.britannica.com/technology/Jacquard-weave

http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/videos/j/video-jacquard-weaving/

 

I’ve absolutely no idea. It’s a piece of art - I’m not sure it has to make rational sense along every dimension. I’m just surprised that you don’t see the heads. If the circular light areas at #1 aren’t headscarves, then what are they? This is a fairly precise, detailed piece of work. What would these pale circular areas be?