Entree Dish-1809 year .It could be belong to,,Munsell Family crest''?

Discussion in 'Silver' started by Iouri, Nov 10, 2019.

  1. Iouri

    Iouri Active Member

    Entree dish- 1809 year made by P.Bateman and W.Bateman. IMG_2393 (1).jpg IMG_2391.jpg
     
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  2. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    Who are the Munsell family? Would you show us a better view of monogrammed area, please. It's in too much shadow to read the words around the garter.

    It would also be useful to see the silver marks as well.
     
  3. SBSVC

    SBSVC Well-Known Member

    I'm seeing "QUOD VULT, VALDE VULT".
    crest on silver dish.jpg

    Different online translations show that it means:
    What he wills, he wills cordially -OR-
    What he wishes, he wishes fervently
     
  4. Iouri

    Iouri Active Member

    Thank you.


    [​IMG]

    MUNSELL FAMILY CREST

    Notes from Doug

    Arms

    Describes as a Chevron between three maunches ( fancy sleeves)

    Crest or family shield : On a chapeau, gu., turned up erm., a falcom rising and a cap of maintenance , enflamed at top.

    Family Mottos :Quod Vult Valde Vult ~What he wishes he wishes fervently & Honorantes me Honorabo~I will honor those who honor me.

    Spelling variations include : Maunsell, Maunsel, Mansel, Mancel, Mauncell, Munsel, Munselle and many many more.

    First found in Glamorgan where they were anciently seated. Sir John was succeeded by Sir Thomas, a gallant knight who fell in the Baron Wars.

    The orthography of the name varies upoon the ancient records but : de Maunsel, Mnnsell, Mancil, Monsell, Munsell. It is now written Munsell by most of the families in America.

    Sir Philip de Maunsell of Normandy was one of the companions of William the Conqueror, in the invasion and conquest of England by the Normans in 1066. His eldest son Henry Maunsell was the father of Sir John Maunselll, Lord Chancellor of St. Paul’s and keeper of the Kings Seal. His son, sir Henry Maunsell settled in Glamorganshire and was the ancestor of Sir Thomas Mansell created Baronet and of Sir Thomas Mansell who was created Baron Mansell of Margam. The family is thought to have omitted the "u" during the reign of Queen Elizabeth.

    A branch of the family settled in Ireland and is known as Monsell of Tervoe.

    From the "Munsell Genealogy " by Frank Garfield Munsell, 1950.
     
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  5. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    So, since you know so much about the family's history, and since it would be highly unlikely that this very specific family crest and motto would appear on a piece of silver that no member of the family entitled to the use of said devices owned at the time the silver dish was made, what exactly is it you expect us to be able to find for you?

    And how about a picture of the silver marks please?
     
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  6. Iouri

    Iouri Active Member

    I going, to send later,but I put be
    That entree-dish,I put before that,but I gona put more pictures later .Thank you.
     
  7. Iouri

    Iouri Active Member

  8. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    You need to refer to a copy of Burke's Peerage if you want to discover what family member this might have belonged to (if that's your objective.)

    Debora
     
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  9. Iouri

    Iouri Active Member

    I see,Thank you.But it could be.
     
  10. KC Antique

    KC Antique New Member

    If I am correct I am seeing a light strike of PB to the left of the Sterling (Passant), London (Crowned Leopard's Head), 1789 (O) and George III Duty Mark (right facing head).
    PB was typically used by Peter Bateman and he had several variations depending on who he was in business with== at the time.
    A better view of the maker's mark would be grand!
     
  11. Iouri

    Iouri Active Member

    I hope you write.Thank you. IMG_2419.jpg IMG_2420.jpg
     
  12. Iouri

    Iouri Active Member

  13. Iouri

    Iouri Active Member

    One more picture. IMG_2421.jpg IMG_2421.jpg
     
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