Help identify oriental porcelain bowl with kimono girls

Discussion in 'Pottery, Glass, and Porcelain' started by ZachSaeed, Oct 14, 2019.

  1. ZachSaeed

    ZachSaeed New Member

    WhatsApp Image 2019-10-14 at 15.29.01.jpeg WhatsApp Image 2019-10-14 at 15.31.12.jpeg WhatsApp Image 2019-10-14 at 15.32.36.jpeg Help identify oriental porcelain bowl with kimono girls. Is it an antique? Can I get more info about it? Thanks in advance. Cheers
     
    scoutshouse and Any Jewelry like this.
  2. Mat

    Mat Well-Known Member

    This is Japanese Satsuma from early 20th c, signed "Kinkozan". But note that this is NOT the famous Kinkozan workshop of Kyoto. This one here used a different first character which just sounds the same. I guess he wanted to profit a bit of the famous other Kinkozan....
     
  3. blooey

    blooey Well-Known Member

    Have to differ I'm afraid :wideyed: - this bowl is Japanese porcelain and Satsuma wares are pottery. Agree early 20thc.

    I think you'll find this is a Kutani mark, "Kyokuzan"
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  4. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    From an earlier discussion here on Satsuma ware -

    "Satsuma" ware was originally produced in the Satsuma region on the island of Kyushu. It is characterized by the cream colored clay body, described as earthenware or stoneware (the difference being in the firing temperature - lower than porcelain), and the finely crackled glaze.

    In the second half of the 19th century, Satsuma "style" ware began to be produced by factories in other regions of Japan.

    Much of the confusion about Japanese wares comes from early descriptions based on the port the wares were exported from, which might be different from where they were actually produced. There also are different clay bodies (earthenware, stoneware, and porcelain), which can be decorated in a variety of styles. Sometimes a term is applied to the place of origin, the clay body, or the style of decoration, all of which might be combined in different wares by the producers. And, of course, all of this changes over time.
    https://www.antiquers.com/threads/satsuma-vase-knock-off-how-do-i-identify-thanks.32952/#post-436284

    So, you may have Satsuma style decoration on a porcelain body.
     
    Houseful and komokwa like this.
  5. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    You may be correct on this, @blooey. That orange color is often seen on Kutani pieces.
     
  6. Mat

    Mat Well-Known Member

    I insist that this is Satsuma and not porcelain. It is likely made in Awata/Kyoto but still one calls it (Kyo-)Satsuma. You can see the characteristic fine crackles in the glaze despite the quality of the photos. Also the mark is "Kinkozan" (金光山) and not Kyokuzan (旭山). This other Kinkozan is not an unknown and his mark appears on Satsuma earthenware.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
    lloyd249, 2manybooks and Bakersgma like this.
  7. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    @ZacSaeed, one way to determine if the bowl is porcelain or a lower fired ceramic is to listen to it when you tap it with your fingernail. If it is not cracked, a porcelain bowl will "ring". If it is a lower fired pottery or stoneware, it will only produce a duller sound (thud).
     
    Bakersgma likes this.
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