Help if possible - ivory tusk / wood art

Hey guys, new member looking forward to contributing. But I have a unique situation, a customer wants to sell this item and it's way outside of my wheelhouse. Two elephant tusks mounted onto a carved wood pedestal. He claims his father brought them over from Vietnam 50-60 years ago, so I believe they are sellable under law?

But my real question, what type of value am I looking at if authentic and legal? I need to make him a reasonable offer, after I see it in person and view his documentation on dating. For now all I have is this photo (bad quality, I'm aware). Whole thing is about 5 feet tall, dark ebony carved wood. Any input at all is helpful, I have no idea where to start! Thank you for any insight at all, looking forward to being a member here. I own an antique shop and art gallery on Cape Cod, MA

 

The CITES rules prescribe 1947 as permissable in international trade (dependent also on local laws). You'd have to refer to state and federal laws to see what is acceptable where you are.

The picture is quite good compared with the rubbish pictures many people post, don't worry about that.

The big problem with ivory objects nowadays is that they are financially and in some cases ethically out of fashion, with legislatures craving brownie points enacting all sorts of laws about the stuff. If you cannot display the thing without having a hoard of enraged elephant fanciers camped outside your shop, any amount is too much. If I was offered it, unless I had some specific customer in mind, I'd pass on it. Massachusetts law may call it legat today, I don't know, but they may make it illegal tomorrow.
I will buy fine antique ivory carvings for my own appreciation, but I'd not fancy that for home decor. Just a lot too tusky.

I am inclined to think the tusks are real, they have different curvature you'd not find if they were some material made for looking like tusks.

Also note that some laws distinguish between worked and unworked Ivory, with differing rules. This object may count as unworked ivory, which is generally more strictly regulated.

 

those are a beautiful set of tusks.....tell your client to find an auction house willing to touch them.....

 

Afantiques - Thank you very much for the info, it was very helpful. That's my dilemma, I'm worried it may offend some customers (my shop attracts all types). Also, if I buy it and it turns out to be illegal, I'm stuck with it unless I break the laws and sell quietly. I am thinking I may buy it for myself or a family member, as it seems like a beautiful example if authentic. Appreciate you taking the time to respond, I will update the post when I go view it

Komokwa - while this is probably the safest option, this is owned by someone who walked in my shop and just wants it gone. I advertise that I buy quality items, and get walk ins pretty much daily. He said he hates it, and that it's dangerous for his grandkids to be around. I get the impression he would sell it relatively cheap, but then the issue becomes am I ripping him off? I certainly have no idea of true value but always try to make fair offers. Thank you for you reply, glad to see this board is active and helpful. Much appreciated

Anyone have a very basic ball park figure of value if legal and authentic. Must be thousands correct?

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=ivory+law+massachusetts&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

Plenty to read here. It seems Massachusetts is considering a law. Conn and Vt aready have them.

The typical form is not to make Ivory illegal to own or confiscatable, just to ban the domestic sale of ivory items, on top of the existing legislation covering international sales. Accquistion by gift or inheritance should be OK. There is often little discrimination about antique ivory or such stringent restrictions they amount to a de facto ban. A long hike through the northwoods to Canada to smuggle the item out of the US is probably not something most would consider worthwhile.

Consider it a game of musical chairs. Do you want to be the last one standing holding the baby with no-where to go. I was thinking $300 to $500, far less than 20 years ago, but possibly a level at which the chance of a quick sale or adding the item to your man-cave might be a tolerable risk. If you have a wife or children, they may not fancy you buying the item.

In my opinion such US laws are futile crowd pleasers, with no downside apart from a few freaky antique dealers, and they don't have all that many votes. They will bring no long dead elephants back to life, and the main trade is with the far east; the USA could be totally ivory free and the level of poaching would not change. Rampant corruption and lack of government control over much territory fuels the trade, and the only effective solution would be the military occupation and effective policing of much of Africa. This would be rather too expensive to contemplate. It is said that the trade funds terrorism, but it mostly buys arms and ammunitionfor local criminality and insurgency, and keeps the West African Mercedes Benz dealers happy and fat.

 

AF - MA stands for Massachusetts, not Maine. (Maine is ME)

 

Duly noted, thanks.

The writing seems to be on the wall for ivory sales in the next few years wherever you are. It iis such a crowd pleaser no politician worth his bribe could really resist a passing bandwagon.

Luckily no mainstream British politician sees any milage in such activity, but we do have a lot of influential people from the Queen down who have many fine ivory items.

 

Didn't HRH recently say that the ivory collections at Windsor & Buckingham should be destroyed to bolster the bans? I could be wrong on that................

 

HRH represents the frustrated lunatic fringe of British royalty. He undoubtably means well, but occupies much the same place in public affection as the eccentic uncle whowears Harris Tweed underwear and argues with daffodils.

Any attempt to implement such a plan (which I think he may have mentioned) woould probably result in a regency for a more realistic candidate.

 

Hi and WELCOME, bmwjunkie!! They ARE lovely, but I wouldn't want to take a chance on them, personally. You are on the Cape.....are they something you would consider asking Eldred's Auction House in E. Dennis about?? Take the picture if you don't want to take the item......???

 

Hello and thanks for the welcome! As I run a business, my first choice is to buy them at a fair price and get them appraised by an auction house (eldreds is closest to me so probably there). If they say everything is kosher, I would take their advice on how to sell. Definitely would bring pictures first to avoid any incidents. I do understand ivory is tricky, but I don't morally take issue with true antiques acquired before the ban. This item in no way affects the current poaching as it is a fairly heirloom

My main concern is what I should pay, and if it is legal, a real basic range of value. Doing research, I see things similar realizing prices in the thousands all the way up to 50k plus. But I realize it depends on age, region, and quality.

But I really appreciate all of the input guys. Definitely the most unique item I've had walk in my door, although I've only been in the antique game since I left college 5 years ago. So please excuse my somewhat limited knowledge. I will update the thread tomorrow as the seller is supposedly sending me photos of his dating documentation to prove age

 

Please, drop the hint that I am available - and not a bad choice as I probably won't last very long..................

 

Afantiques - appreciate the link. Also, I was thinking of offering $350 to start and going $500 max. At that price if it's illegal to sell, I have a unique piece for my man cave. If I can sell it, I'd imagine I could do fairly well. Or were you saying 300-500 resale value? Either way, I will wait on documentation, then go see it in person this week. The seller is about 30 mins away so it's not too bad

 

Hi, you are on Cape Cod? So am I, I live in Eastham. Where is your shop?

Definitely go to Eldred's Auction House before offering anything. They will be up on what is sellable, and what is selling.

You really need to do research on the ivory laws in place and proposed. That does not look like an item that will fly out the door, you have to find the right buyer. It could take years, and in years the ivory laws may be very different than they are today.

I am on the board of the Cape Cod Antique Dealers Association, we are currently working on drafting a statement distilling the current ivory laws down to understandable English for our members to use as a guide. It hasn't been easy

 

I was thinking an offer price. A lot depends on how much you consider a gamble is worth, an amount you are willing to risk and won't suffer if it goes pear shaped.

Please do not use comparatives with 'unique, an item is unique or it is not. The word you want is 'unusual'
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Please, drop the hint that I am available - and not a bad choice as I probably won't last very long..................

Even considering all the Bourbons, Hapsburgs and Hanoverians in your ancestry I fear you may be a twig too far off the main branch to qualify.

Prince Charles boy William would be the popular choice and should last at least 50 years. However, if they ever ask me I will mention you.

 

By the way - WHAT is wrong with arguing with daffodils? They are prone to so much less rhetoric than, say, your run of the mill tulip......................

but I do NOT advocate the wearing of Harris Tweed underwear...........all those buttons, you know.............

 

Hi Marie,

Thank you for the info, small world! Our shop is in Eastham, so maybe you've been in before? Eastham Emporium on route 6? Anyways, I may decline, as I don't want to bring any negative attention to our new store. Just thought it was a cool item that even if not sellable I could place in my own home. Clearly there are a lot of restrictions I am not up to date on. I'm glad I came here for guidance, we'll see how it plays out

But if you haven't already, you should stop by sometime. The store is a disaster at the moment, have been buying all winter and now trying to organize for the summer. But we are working on it. We love it here in Eastham and had a great first year. Thank you for your work with the antique association as well!

 

Now that I consider what I wrote originally, I think it was William, not Charles who made the statement.............like Dada, like Sprog, neh?

And FYI we deny any direct Bourbon connections - Valois, probably - Parma, yes - Bourbon, NEVER!

 

It was William.

If Valois, I know a fellow keris collector in The Netherlands who is related to you.

 

I don't know of any direct Dutch relations, though we do have ancestry. I lived in Amsterdam (Amstelveen) for some time back in the 1990s. I worked with Jorge Gulliamrmo (and family) for a few years, and before that in Baarn with the in-laws!