help to date and id this vase / jar

Hello friends,
today I would like to bring this vase to your attention (or jar?)
which I was awarded within a large batch of objects at an auction house in Rome, Italy.
In this lot there were old European vases and some others that I still have to identify; this is one of those unknown to me.
it was very dusty, I cleaned it gently by passing it under running water, without soap, just to remove the dust.
Curiously, horizontal stripes of rust have formed over the entire
In its plot then, there are millions of tiny dots of rust
In some areas, the blue enamel remained more shiny, and in many others, it became duller.
Through your help I would like to be able to attribute an indicative dating, a provenance.
Also I would need some advice: can I try to clean it more drastically?
What could I use to remove the oxidation and the rust?
Or maybe it is better to keep it as it is, preserved, without altering it?
Height: 22 cm
Weight: 850 grams
Thanks everyone for the help.
Gianluca





















I tag some old forum friends

@Bakersgma @SBSVC @clutteredcloset49 @kentworld @silverthwait
@kentworld @komokwa @johnnycb09 @KikoBlueEyes @Silver Wolf
@Any Jewelry @i need help @Fid @moreotherstuff @dgbjwc
@Silverhuntress @janetpjohn
@Debora
@2manybooks

I added a Poll to enjoy voting all together

 

I know nothing about ceramics. Looking at the blotchy spots and concentric rings of rust, though, leads me to speculate that the underlying clay had iron in it that leached to the surface. If that is true, it is not correctable.

 

from the strong oxidation of the iron and from the crackle there is no doubt that it is a very old vase. In the central part the oxidation followed the direction of the creation of the pot lathe. The lower part better determines the age of the object, which can be placed, in my opinion, towards the middle of the 19th century (I voted the poll).
He could be older, but I could be wrong, better wait for the answers of those who are much more experienced than me.
Even the partial loss of glazes coincides with the rest.
Fmpov it's impossible to determine the origin, it is a classic style, certainly European, Italian or southern Europe.
I do not think it's a jar / bottle, I think it's a vase.
Absolutely DO NOT clean it! Leave him like this, to express his entire experience. Its value is precisely that of being able to transmit its historicity and its age through oxidation and loss of enamel. A beautiful object, congratulations.

 

Thanks Anabel.
The fact is that I am a reseller, I buy and sell, so do you think that I could sell the vase directly in this state? I promise I will not clean it
Mid 19th century or older? Wow I didn't expect it, I thought early 20th century.
Let's see other votes, maybe then the average of all the polls will help to better determine the dating.
thanks a lot

 

Ehhhh yes yes, don't clean it, sell it in its original state. If you clean it, it will lose all its value, and it will remain a worn and clean vase, and its value will become 0.....Many people make similar mistakes,
we had time to warn you before the disaster

As for dating, yes, 19th century or older, but I'll be honest, I'm not very good at giving dates. Before putting it up for sale, maybe wait for the answers and / or polls of other users, then you will be able to orient yourself.

Compliments for photos ! They are beautiful, do you use a led lighted photo cube?
I have one too, but it's smaller.

 

Ditto all you said! Welcome Anabel!

 

Thanks

 

Thank you for the tag Gianluca.
I'm afraid that I can't offer any helpful information. I don't recognize the style and I am not that well versed in European ceramics.

As I mentioned in your PM, I did not receive an alert from you.
So let's ask @janetpjohn @say_it_slowly and @kentworld again.

 

I cannot speak to the origin or age of the vase, but I agree with Anabel that the stripes are likely caused by impurities in the original clay. If it was used as a vase, water would have slowly penetrated and evaporated out through the crazed glaze, carrying the impurities with it. The evaporation would vary with the thickness of the vase wall, which would relate to the internal ridges created as it was formed on the potter's wheel.

 

I did not get a tag to the thread either, although I did get a Convo today. I have nothing to contribute on this item, unfortunately. Good luck, Gianluca.

 

I too ,agree with @Anabel P. ......you do not want to change the look of this item.
As for how old it is , I am not knowledgeable enuf to know for certain....

 

Very decoratief vase.
if you look closely at the photos you will see that the craks or artificaly made (which i don't think) or the vase was decorated at a much later time. because the crackle does not run through the colors.
in addition, blue color pigment looks like something from the 20th century.

since the last act (decoration) determines the age then I would say that this is a vintage item rather than an antique.

 

under magnification and closer inspection...I find that it does run thru the blue..

 

or...that it runs under the blue............my terminology may be incorrect..

 

yes under not through .... what i try to say is that the blue color should also on surface have crackles..

 

look closely the flowers. the blue color is a bit thicker there and you don't see the crackels

 

some of my "old" friends on the forum told me that the tag did not reach them, so I assume it did not reach anyone, I re-enter them now more correctly


@Bakersgma @SBSVC @clutteredcloset49 @kentworld
@komokwa @johnnycb09 @KikoBlueEyes @Silver Wolf
@Any Jewelry @i need help @Fid @moreotherstuff @dgbjwc
@janetpjohn @Debora @2manybooks

 

Hello friends,
first of all thank you very much for your replies and for your interest.
Intrigued by Rec's reasoning, I went to take other photos in macro,
to see if the crackle goes under or through. Here they are .
In reality, even the enamel undergoes "cracking"
in areas where it is less thick, less present, where the enamel layer is lighter.
At first glance it would appear that the crackle passes under it, but in reality
as you can see from the photos, even the glaze is "cracked" "above" or "through" if you prefer.
Instead, in areas where the enamel is thicker, or in any case there are multiple layers of application,
the crackle is lighter or absent.
I therefore believe that the decoration was not done in recent times, after the creation of the vase,
but in the same old period of the creation of the same, since more simply, the greater thickness of the glaze has preserved and therefore protected from the formation of the crackle,
while in areas where the enamel is less thick, it too has undergone crackle.
The fact that the enamel is indeed cracked proves that it could not have been applied later.
I hope I have explained.
My english is not great, excuse me.
The feeling of Rec was very right, I also had the same feeling, but then with these photos,
I can assure you that even the enamel has undergone the crackle "through" and not "under".
So I would stay closer to the considerations of others, who attributed the vase in the 19th century.
Obviously I respect and admire the opinion of Rec, who certainly knows more than me, but I think that the photos before did not allow us to understand well, and that is why I decided to send more exhaustive photos.
If anyone would like to review their poll and edit it, it is possible, I have entered the option to do so.
Looking forward to your comments, I thank everyone for giving me a chance to learn.

 

I agree with @Anabel P. (welcome!), don't clean it. I doubt you can clean it anyway.
And I must say the staining doesn't bother me one bit.

My mother collected European folk pottery, and she had something like this in her collection. Of course I can't remember where it was from. Southern Europe makes sense, possibly Italy.
I could say that I should have paid more attention to her collection, but the truth is, it was pretty vast, and like yours truly she collected collections. In pathological cases like ours it is impossible to take note of everything. All I can say is that she collected genuine items, so this isn't a piece of junk.

 

Thanks @Any Jewelry

i need your poll to be happy :-P