Help to Identify 3 Old Small, Heavy ? Carved or Cast Birds

Discussion in 'Metalware' started by RLM Stamps, Mar 2, 2021.

  1. RLM Stamps

    RLM Stamps Member

    These three birds have been in my family for many years. I was hoping someone could help me identify the type, date and possibly the maker? One has a year date on its bottom. I think that date is 1833 or 1883? There are other marks on two of them that I can not identify. One looks like it could read DESCHUI. I have tried to find similar items but have not been able to.


    1 - IMG_3137 (3)-scfopt.jpg 2 - 11c-scfopt.jpg 3 - 11f-scfopt.jpg
     
    moreotherstuff and Any Jewelry like this.
  2. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    The pheasant looks like it might say CHINA. I stress "might". Definitely not 100% sure of that.
     
  3. Ce BCA

    Ce BCA Well-Known Member

    They look like Austrian cold painted bronze figures. The most famous maker being Franz Bergman. The tail mark is likely Geschut (Patent or protected), the 1833 would be a model number, they weren't made at this early date. There were many copies and many later fakes around, but Bergman ones are very sought after. If you google Franz Bergman you should find plenty of information and some details on how to see if an item may be by this factory.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  4. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    It seems to read 'Geschutzt', in this case comparable to patented.
     
    Bakersgma and i need help like this.
  5. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

    Bless you! :hilarious:
     
  6. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    Nothing at all on the rooster?
     
  7. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Although these are lovely, and I agree cold painted and possibly Austrian, they don't look like they have the detail and quality of Bergman bronzes.
    Thank you!:joyful:
     
    i need help likes this.
  8. Ce BCA

    Ce BCA Well-Known Member

    I agree, although I think the small bird leaning forward has a chance, it has a look about it and the fact it has the Geschut mark (perhaps missing the 'zt' due to space) but no Bergman mark suggests it's less likely to be and out an out fake.

    Just as general info for anyone reading too, Bergman bronzes were also sometimes marked Namgreb.
     
    Any Jewelry likes this.
  9. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    The colouring certainly has more finesse, with those beautiful nuances.
    Slid off the tail.;)
     
    Ce BCA likes this.
  10. RLM Stamps

    RLM Stamps Member

    Thank you all for responses and information you shared. I meant to thank you yesterday but was distracted with other business. I may upload some individual images of each piece tomorrow. They seem so far away in the top image.
     
  11. RLM Stamps

    RLM Stamps Member

    Here are some close-up images. I do have two questions. Are the items bronze?
    Are these items carved or cast?

    1 - Pheasant (2).JPG 1a - Pheasant (2).JPG 2 - Sparrow (2).JPG 2a - Sparrow (2).JPG 2b - Sparrow (2).JPG 3b - Rooster (2).JPG 3 - Rooster (2).JPG
     
    Any Jewelry likes this.
  12. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    Ah. So the stamp under the pheasant doesn't say CHINA after all. It's Geschutz just like the other one.
     
    Roaring20s likes this.
  13. Ce BCA

    Ce BCA Well-Known Member

    Bronze and cast. They are painted rather than patinated, and called 'cold painted bronze'

    edit (you often see them mounted on onyx dishes from the Deco period as well as being decorative free standing ornaments)
     
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  14. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    I've never heard of "carving" metal.
     
  15. RLM Stamps

    RLM Stamps Member

    "I've never heard of "carving" metal." Well that shows how much I know about this type of item. :bored: I am hoping to learn something new everyday. Does anyone have any idea how old these might be?
     
  16. Ce BCA

    Ce BCA Well-Known Member

    Date range is generally 1895-1935 with most being in the 1920-35 bracket.
     
  17. RLM Stamps

    RLM Stamps Member

    Thank you for all of the information. Now that I know they are cold painted bronze, I have been able to find many examples on Worthpoint. I can see the difference in quality between mine and the Bergman examples.
     
  18. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    looks like Ges. Gesch├╝tzt. which makes it German. Austria marked Gesch├╝tzt only.
     
  19. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    The Naga head, and the triangle it rests on, on the left is carved, the small protrusions on the left too.:)

    upload_2021-3-5_18-54-52.jpeg
     
  20. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    Perhaps chiseled, filed, and chased would be better terms. "Carved" implies worked with a knife, which you can't do to metal, (except for maybe lead). :)
     
    Bakersgma and Any Jewelry like this.
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