Help with handwriting please? Cabinet card...

Batman - FYI. Jane Thomas (Mrs. Edward, nee Pinhorn, not Roberts) was born in Woolwich, Kent. Married Edward Thomas of Leicestershire in 1824. Had one child Captain Edward Harry Thomas of the Leicestershire Militia, who died about 29 Jan 1859. The poem on your card is titled by the first line and is contained in one of the several books of her poetry that are available online as e-books. (I just reread your OP and see that you already know the book in which this poem was published.)

I got this information from a combination of what is printed in the book published 1860, not long following the death of her son to whom the book was dedicated, and a biography of English authors in which she is listed. It contains no date of death.

 

Update - I found a few more things on Ancestry.

Jane was the daughter of John and "Mizey" Pinhorn, born in 1798. She and 2 siblings, William and Frances, were all baptized the same day. From the 1841 and 1851 census records I found out that she also had a sister Sarah, born in 1811 (who, at those dates, was still unmarried.) It appears from her husband Edward's will (proved in London in early 1844) that she also had a brother John, because a John Pinhorn of the Admiralty Office was one of the appointed executors and trustees.

Also from the will, we find that her husband Edward was a very wealthy man, having inherited from his grandfather, Mr. Greene, a number of properties. Although Edward was listed in the Prerogative Court records as "Reverend Edward Thomas" in the one census available before his death his "occupation" is not given, simply that he has "Independent means."

The family seems to have lived in Rolleston, Leicestershire, as that is the birthplace (1829) given for their son Edward Harry Thomas in the 1851 census. He was unmarried at that date. In the 1841 census I think I found him at a boarding school in another Leicestershire community as E. Thomas.

Let me backtrack to your OP. Are you thinking that the sitter in the photo was a member of Jane's family? Or not?

 

Thank you so much, Bakersgma! Yes, I saw the book by Jane Thomas, pub'd 1860, and saw that her son had died in 1859. Something led me to believe her maiden name was Roberts, but your research shows something else so I need to look again. You've given me a lot of information to follow up on!

I had wondered if it was an original poem by a member of the family. But now I'm just trying to find any connection to the family that I can - maybe it has nothing at all to do with Jane Thomas herself, and the poem was just quoted from her book.

What I know so far is: the album came from Wales, there are links to Bangor, Carnarvon & Pwllheli (North Wales) and the sea (photos of HMS Conway in the Menai Strait). Links to Liverpool too. And there's an American connection - Philadelphia, Boston, and Poultney, Vermont.

Names scattered through the album include:
G. James (Wales?)
Sister Anty Jane
Uncle Wm
Jim McRae (written near a cdv taken in Sydney, Australia)
Madge & Mable (postcard from L'pool, 1923)
Willie Owens in Waquoit, Mass, US (written on the back of a cabinet card dated 1891)
Will, Lily & children (postcard - no date)
Humph Roberts alongside Emrys Willa
Ann Lodge
Emily, wife of Elias Griffith

There's more but the writing is poor and most of it in Welsh!

I don't expect you to research this, but if you've already seen any of these names it would be very interesting . I'm going to go through what you've told me, and try to piece Jane Thomas's life together a little better for my records.

Many thanks for everything, you've been an enormous help!

 

Waquoit is here on Cape Cod. It's one of the villages of Falmouth. Several of the larger towns have villages - to be a village, you must have your own post office.

 

Thanks Bev . Here's a scan of the cabinet card itself... a very cute baby!

 

There seem to be quite a few immigrants from Wales in Poultney, Vermont about 1900 - working the in stone (granite) quarries for which Vermont is well-known. Do you have specific names related to Poultney or some idea of the dates for those photo?

 

Thanks again Bakersgma, I didn't know that about Welsh immigrants and Poultney. Here are the cabinet cards linking the album to that place, nothing written on them unfortunately, but they look like the same young man.


I'm just going through your excellent research on Jane Thomas but nothing leaps out at me yet, as a connection to the family album. (BTW, the surname Roberts mistakenly cropped up when I followed another Rev Edward Thomas who also married a Jane!).

 

I might have something. Your information prompted me to look at the US Federal Census. I found FM Rood, the photographer, in 1900 living in Poultney... and next door lived a family by the surname Williams, father from Wales and son (Idris) born 1888. The name of Idris reminded me there was another postcard in the album, with the name Idnis on the back. Well, I thought it was Idnis, but the writing isn't clear, so maybe it's Idris? And the man in the middle resembles the boy on the cabinet cards? What do you think?

 

Definitely a possibility looking at the nose.

 

Another update on Idris (Edyrs) W. Williams of Poultney, VT.

Must have been a very unusual name because he is listed as a female on the Birth Record. His birth was not attended by a doctor, so that may have lead to the confusion. Born 29 Sep 1888.

The "Jennie Williams" in the 1900 Census was not his mother. Jennie and his father had only been married 1 year at that date.

The Birth record shows Idris (Edyrs) as the child of Kate Ellis Williams and William O. Williams. Kate was born about 1867 in Wales to John and Elizabeth (Jones) Ellis. She died on 11 Jun 1890 in Poultney.

She and William had at least 2 other children, both girls - Mary, born 1886, died in Poultney on 6 Jul 1887; and Edith W. born 1885, died May 1887, age 2 of measles.

Back to Idris. Cannot be found in the 1910 Census. Next record is his WWI Draft Registration Form in 1917. He was living in Leroy, Genesee County, New York and working as a clerk for a contracting company. Single.

In 1920, the only record I could find that seems to be him, again shows him as female, but everything else matches up. Living in Ilion, Herkimer County, NY, again doing clerical work for a typewriter company. Single.

In 1930 I have sad news to report. He was a patient at The Craig Colony in Groveland, Livingston County, NY. I believe this was a TB sanitarium.

No records after that date.

Would you post what you have about "Humph" Roberts and Emrys Willa? When I was going through the cemetery records in Poultney, I saw some names that might be them.

 

One last update for today.

While searching for more info on Idris' father, I found that Idris was still living with his father and step-mother in Poultney in 1910. It didn't come up in my earlier search because Idris' name was misspelled.

His father William Owen Williams was born 25 Mar 1861 in Bethesda, Llanllechid, Caernarfonshire, Wales to Owen Williams and Mary Griffiths. William died 5 Jul 1923 in Poultney.

Idris' mother Catherine Ellis immigrated with her parents and 4 brothers, all lived in Poultney (and one brother was named Emrys!). She was born in Llanllyfni, Caernarfonshire. She married William O Williams in Poultney on 30 Mar 1885.

There is 1 public tree that focuses on the Ellis line and that was the source of the birthplaces. You should be able to see it if you put in all the information about her. There is also a private tree that from it's title should be more wide-ranging and you might want to contact that tree owner with information about the album (if your intent is to get it back to "the family." If not, then forget I mentioned it.)

 

One really last note.

I was mistaken in my assumption that "The Craig Colony" was for the care of tuberculosis patients. It was in fact for epileptics, established in 1894. Because it is relatively close to the places where Idris was living in 1917 and 1920, I can only imagine that those locations were specifically chosen because of proximity to Craig.

Most of the links that come up on Google when searching "Craig Colony" are references to the institution's cemetery and to scholarly articles about the development of it and other New York State institutions for the care of the poor and those suffering from a variety of conditions.

Here's a link to an article about Craig.

https://inmatesofwillard.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/1916-craig-colony-for-epileptics.pdf

FYI - The Craig Cemetery is available on find-a-grave, but Idris' name is not on the list of interrments.

 

Bakersgma, I can't thank you enough! Thank you!

I'd concluded that Jennie Williams wasn't his mother, but you've provided much more detail than I found. Interesting that there's a Caernarfonshire connection through Idris' parents, since there's a connection to that area in the album.

It's a long shot, but I'm now wondering if the death of his mother had anything to do with the 'Jane Thomas' poem.

Yes, I found Idris in the Craig Colony last night (but had to give up researching, it was getting late). Thanks for the link, I'll read up about it. Poor man :-(. I've found a death announcement via a google search - Idris died Jan 27 1932 and was interred at Poultney Cemetery. His step-mother is mentioned, plus other names I don't recognise.

The names Emrys Willa and Humph Roberts are pencilled in on an empty page. It's unfortunate that the photo is missing - perhaps the dealer I bought the album from removed some cards to sell separately. I'd like to keep what's left intact, and yes, I'd love to reunite it with an interested family member, or at least share the identified photographs online.


As you can see, the album is quite grubby in places. All the handwriting is in pencil and appears to have been done by the same person.

Ok, I'm off to search some more, and follow up on the leads you've kindly given me!

 

Hi Sue,
You are wonderful with all this stuff. As to his male or female I can only add this. When I was doing the census. One of the most important questions was "You have to ask directly the person what sex they are". Most of the people I asked looked at me like I was an idiot. I got lots of really weird answers. Trying to "straighten" them out was a real chore.
greg

 

Jeez Bakers! Can you give us any info at all??? I mean...come on!

 

Oh... There it is...ok then...

 

Good morning, Batman. (And Milt too. )

I was able to find that death announcement on fultonhistory - what a great site that is!) I've written down the names of the pallbearers to see if I can find more family connections for you. Although Williams is a fairly common name, the 2 Williams men may be cousins to Idris. The Livingston is undoubtedly related in some way to Jennie.

Interesting that Idris died in Rochester - which I am assuming for the moment is Rochester, NY, although the article did not specify. I was a little surprised not to see any named Ellis (cousins through his mother's brothers) but I had not checked out the continuation of the Ellis family after confirming that they all immigrated together.

As for the idea that the picture with the poem on the reverse might be connected to his mother's death, I am skeptical. If we are pretty sure that the original was taken in Liverpool, we must consider the facts - 1) Catherine Ann Ellis Williams was born in Wales in 1867, 2) her family emigrated to the US in the late 1860s/very early 1870 when she was a very young child, 3) she married in Vermont in 1885 at the age of 18 and had borne 3 children by 1888. Was there time (and resources) for her to have returned to Wales as a young woman to sit for this photograph? We all spent a lot time deciphering the writing, but I don't see any suggestions as to timing of the picture (based on the style of the dress perhaps?)

 

And a good morning to you as well Bakers!

 

Good evening everyone! 6.30pm here in the UK ;-)

Bakersgma, I haven't uncovered anything new today since I wanted to go through what you'd found... I did look through Catherine Ann Ellis's family on find-a-grave (another great site!) and found it interesting that her grandfather was apparently a poet. But I think I'm just putting random connections together and I'm sure you're right regarding the timings and locations for the poem in my OP and Idris's mother. It does seem unlikely. What's needed is more information or contact with an existing family member.

And on that note, I checked out the family trees you mentioned on ancestry and will contact one or two of the owners at some point. I also spent some time trying to extend the William O Williams line, because his mother's name 'Griffiths' fits with another name in the album (Elias Griffith). I didn't get very far though, and didn't find any Elias along the way.

Now... you may have noticed that I posted a link to the 'Idris in his flying suit' image in the militaria forum here, and opinion is that it dates to WWII rather than WWI... something to do with the style of headgear... so that means it can't be the Idris we've been following BUT Idris could be a family name and there is certainly a facial similarity. So I do think there's a connection, I'm just not sure what as yet.

So I'm going to keep digging, will post what I find, and thank you in advince for anything you might find!

 

On the list pallbearers at Idris' funeral, I found one close connection (so far.) The William Livingston was a nephew of Jennie Livingston Williams (the stepmother.)

I did find a Russell Irving Williams in Poultney whose mother was a Roberts before marriage and was born in Wales. But her husband Robert Williams was born in Brooklyn, NY in 1866, so it's hard to say whether they have any close connection to Idris or not.

Although I searched some on Arthur Williams, nothing definitive yet because there were several men named Arthur Williams of various ages in Poultney at the time. He is definitely NOT a brother of the Russell mentioned above.