Help with Wedgwood Etruria Chinoiserie plate - is this really 1/1? and date help please :)

Discussion in 'Pottery, Glass, and Porcelain' started by KylieS, Nov 7, 2022.

  1. KylieS

    KylieS Well-Known Member

    Hello all :) keep going around in circles with dating this piece of Wedgewood picked up in France. Seeking help to confirm a date and also whether this is a one of piece from Wedgwood - hand painted for sure, and skillful, but I can't quite reconcile the condition and style it with the dates I'm being suggested according to the back stamps and painted marks...

    20220922_191327.jpg 20220922_191331.jpg 20220922_191341.jpg

    So we can see Wedgwood Etruria mark (apparently used from 1840, for a short period) but with England and 'Made in England' (which was apparently only regularly used from 1908) it has an impressed letter, but only one (either 'N' or 'Z' I think, depending on how you look at it) rather than the 3 letter date stamps.

    Also intriguing is the '1/1' - does this mean the same as in art, where it is a proof / unique piece?

    I'm a bit hopeless on the Staffordshire potteries tbh, though a few have come through my hands and I just can't commit to a date on this or even 100% that it's authentic! I'd love to have some confirmation from persons with more knowledge that me in this area!

    Thanks for looking :)
    moreotherstuff likes this.
  2. JB Miller

    JB Miller Well-Known Member

    Here's the lady to accompany your gent. Front. Back. Didn't want to post a direct link to an active auction but the seller dates the plate to circa 1913. Pattern number is A5591.
    KylieS likes this.
  3. KylieS

    KylieS Well-Known Member

    Thank you so much! I couldn't find anything similar myself, she's clearly the same series. And helpfully has more legible date marks! I'll try to find it myself to check out why the vendor thinks 1913, but that does marry up more with my feel of the age of this piece. I'll update when resolved to my satisfaction! ;)
  4. KylieS

    KylieS Well-Known Member

    Just an update that the eBay listing, although certainly a match for a companion piece, sadly isn't helping matters - I'm not sure the vendor exactly knows what they have either. No mention in the listing of the date codes used to get to 1913, and I can't make out the codes on the back of that example either. Also seems a bit odd to say this is "Apprey pattern" (though there are influences). So, overall I'm not convinced I can rely on the info they have supplied.

    The problem is that all the sites I normally go to for info on dating ceramics indicate this piece to be from mid 19th c. 3 digit date codes didn't start until 1860 which could be why mine doesn't have a code; the Etruria mark in this iteration is noted as being "used for a short period from 1840". Also, the shape of the plate with its rounded bottom and lack of a foot rim seems to indicate earlier than 20th c.

    The things that don't marry up with the mid19th C date for me are 1/ the lack of wear (all my older pieces without a foot rim are much more scraped / scratched than this, even when they're in relatively good condition). 2/ The development of the glazes which are so crisp and consistent that they seem to indicate later firing / manufacturing techniques. And finally 3/ the presence of Made in England in the marks, which apparently didn't come into use until 1908.

    I keep thinking it could be fake?

    But I am no Wedgwood expert ! Maybe they did use Made in England on earlier pieces; and were ahead of the game in their firings! I'd love to hear anyone else's thoughts who knows more than me and has handled more of this type of ware.
  5. JB Miller

    JB Miller Well-Known Member

  6. KylieS

    KylieS Well-Known Member

    Thank you JB! I had a look but couldn't see an image of the mark? Really need to see it because Wedgwood started using the Etruria mark again later, but in a different iteration as a round mark with "Wedgwood of Etruria" as part of it. Same wording but entirely different appearance, in use from 1940 apparently. This site has the two examples on the same page: Wedgwood Marks & Dating Wedgwood Pottery and Porcelain - (
  7. KylieS

    KylieS Well-Known Member

    Also, just digging around, I've found that the Etruria mark of 1840 refers to an impressed mark, which mine is not, so that indicates later.
  8. JB Miller

    JB Miller Well-Known Member


    KylieS likes this.
  9. KylieS

    KylieS Well-Known Member

    :banghead:LOL thank you JB!! My toolbar was hiding the bottom image thumbnails, I was constantly trying to zoom in and out instead:playful:

    Obviously then yes, it is later- glad I listened to my gut and got the experts to weigh in!!

    Still wondering about that 1/1 mark - though it could say something else I guess? i can't see it being a one of it's too 'worked out' IMO. Perhaps what I'm reading as 1/1 is a symbol rather than a number. And interesting too that the lack of a foot rim is no real indication of age.

    Thanks so much for your help again!
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