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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Northern Lights Lodge, post: 2489006, member: 13464&quot;]Hi [USER=65]@trip98[/USER]</p><p>My delight to access your pieces! </p><p><br /></p><p>I just realized that I should apologize to everyone for NOT supplying source photos... I&#039;ll try to remedy that the next time I post. </p><p><br /></p><p>#2 - Definitely hand crochet and really a sweet combo of stitches!</p><p><br /></p><p>The next pic... cool. Apparently, they were appliques and only some were used! Pretty designs!</p><p><br /></p><p>#7 - still having trouble seeing it clearly - BUT, I&#039;m pretty sure that it is machine net. It seems to have clearly &quot;raised&quot; vertical threads in the motifs. IF it was hand made - the horizontals and verticals would be clearly &quot;woven&quot; - rather than one &quot;atop&quot; another. Another way to check... is feel the corners of each of the small squares of netting. IF they are hand done...you should be able to feel a small knot at each junction.&nbsp; Last but not least: those raised leaves. Look on the back side.... is there any sort of &quot;running stitch&quot; connecting each of those leaves?&nbsp; They just don&#039;t &quot;feel&quot; right to my eye.</p><p><br /></p><p>#6 - I&#039;m going to say that your piece is probably of Italian origin- I think we might even be able to consider it Milanese.&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>Although, it has many of the characteristics of these examples of Flemish (the top photo below and also plate 145D) circa late 1800&#039;s. The looping tapes are present in both examples; but there is a hand worked &quot;net&quot; or &quot;ground&quot; that connects the tapes in both examples and your piece has only &quot;bars&quot; or &quot;bridges&quot; that connect the tapes.&nbsp; [ATTACH=full]266738[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]266739[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>In the center plate - 25B (below)... I think this is a better example and closer match. This one has the looping tapes and a sort of mushed bud which seems to be absent in your example; but more importantly, has connecting &quot;bars&quot; or &quot;bridges&quot; rather than a ground.</p><p><br /></p><p>As for the date...I will revise yours to 1860-1880&#039;s.&nbsp; Although &quot;possible&quot; for it to date much older. If it is; the evidence would be that it has &quot;cannibalized&quot; - meaning that it was &quot;cut and re-attached into the Bertha shape&quot;. I&#039;ve had several lovely collars, that on careful examination revealed that they had been an earlier shape; and refitted to adapt to a more modern shape. Or it could have been an earlier flounce.&nbsp; But, I don&#039;t see any evidence of those things from the pics. It &quot;LOOKS&quot; like it was made to start at one end of the collar and end at the other end of the collar. If it was previously a flounce; it would probably be cut along those end edges. So, you&#039;d have to do some careful looking to determine that.&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>I need to address the outer edge. Hand made bobbin again. It &quot;looks&quot; like it is part and parcel of the collar and not sewn on. If that is true, than the piece was definitely made AS a collar and not recycled or cannibalized from an older piece.</p><p><br /></p><p>My other reason for choosing a more modern date than late 18th century is the design.&nbsp; If you examine the three examples - Both of the Flemish, and the Milanese examples - although all are based on the looping tape and have a fairly bold, clear pattern in all three examples; in my opinion, all three have given &quot;space&quot; to the loops, creating nice black and white areas....and have been well designed and executed.</p><p><br /></p><p>At a distance; your piece has a definite design... however, it has the traits of pieces that were worked towards the end of the hand industry. Meaning, it was worked as quickly as possible.&nbsp; This is why the elements upon closer inspection; the tapes and hearts (elements) look rather &quot;mushed&quot;, lack uniformity and lack clean, crisp edges. </p><p><br /></p><p>It was probably designed quickly, and worked quickly. I believe it to be basically all one piece! No time to cut off tapes and end them; only to begin again. No time to add in threads for the back ground &quot;netting&quot; or &quot;ground&quot;... only time to pull a pair over from one tape, connect it to an adjoining tape, and then return to rejoin the original tape. As a lace maker; I can tell you this piece would have been relatively rapid to work.</p><p><br /></p><p>See if you can follow one tape (can you locate the &quot;start&quot;? probably on one end of the collar and the other end on the other end of the collar) and see how far it loops and scrolls around... I believe it even includes the hearts.&nbsp; I&#039;m surprised that the center&#039;s of the hearts contain the woven &quot;point d&#039;esprit&quot; squares, as those are somewhat time consuming.</p><p><br /></p><p>All that said: I think it is a very cool piece and is quite showy!&nbsp; Wouldn&#039;t it look grand over a bright contrasting blouse or sweater?</p><p><br /></p><p>Snaps were invented in 1885. So they could be original to a Bertha of that date. Bertha&#039;s were wide - generally &quot;off shoulder&quot; collars and the snaps would have been necessary to affix it to the neckline.</p><p><br /></p><p>If you are planning to keep the piece; I think I&#039;d carefully remove the snaps - especially if they are rusty. If you are going to sell the piece then I&#039;d leave as is.</p><p><br /></p><p>Well, I hope that you are smiling!&nbsp; Truly a cool, fun piece! I wish I could positively date it to older; but... I am confident about it being from the 1860-1880&#039;s.&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>Thanks again for sharing!&nbsp; </p><p>I love the challenge of finding the &quot;story&quot; of laces... this one was fun! </p><p><br /></p><p>Cheerio for now,</p><p>Leslie</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]266744[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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