Identify & Restore 1917 Violin

Really, that means nothing when it comes to the value of this particular instrument; he may indeed have sold some nice fiddles to these folks in the past, but we are talking about this one now. It doesn't add to the current seller's credibility that he used that phrasing, IMHO.
And in my experience, Lyon and Healy was known for ordinary-quality instruments, and a 1917 German violin imported and sold under their name would not likely be worth $3500 today.
Just my opinion....but only a reputable violin shop is going to be able to answer your questions as to 1) what it would cost to restore and 2) what it would be worth once restored.
If it were me, I know two shops in my area that would be 100% reliable and would give honest answers to those questions without trying to talk me into anything; and would be qualified to do the repairs if I decided to go that route. I hope you can find shops in your area that would do the same.

 

Here's an article discussing some of the Lyon and Healy violins from that era; doesn't mention this model, but mentions that a 1917 model 1025 "special" might be worth $750 to $2500 today.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Violin-2164/2008/11/Value-Violin.htm
That might give you some idea, but I don't think you'll find much more online; violins really should be appraised in person at a reputable shop, again just my opinion.

 

and another thread on the Lyon and Healy violins at
http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/314343-old-lyon-

 

Here is what appears to be a similar Lyon & Healy German violin of similar age and condition that sold for $1800.00 at Skinners.

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10155857_german-violin-for-lyon-and-healy-c-1920-labeled

 

But were they reconditioned before sale? I"d think it would make a difference.

 

I've looked a bit more closely at the photos posted of this violin above, and I wouldn't get my hopes up as far as value.
Lyon and Healy imported and sold a wide range of violins, in all qualities; and the scroll of the violin shown puts it very much at the bottom end in quality.
A traditional scroll is a spiral; elegant in a valuable instrument, less elegant in a less valuable one. This is the type of scroll seen in Brad's link.
But the scroll of the violin being discussed here is very rudimentary, just concentric circles. This puts it way below the Skinner's instrument in quality.

Unless a reputable violin shop tells you it is a rare and valuable model, my guess would be that it is a very basic student model and likely to be valued at the very bottom end of the price range. The article linked above mentions that the higher model numbers were higher in price originally, and higher in value today. The Skinner's instrument auctioned for $1800 was a Cremonatone, and would have been in the 1100 series; the instrument in the catalog valued at possibly $750 to $2500 was a model 1025; the one currently under discussion is apparently a model 1005, considerably lower on the quality scale.

In my experience, and I've been playing violins for more than 50 years, even the cheapest imports have a carved spiral scroll, and most buyers are not going to look twice at a violin with anything else. But again, a reputable shop should be able to look it up in their reference books and tell you for sure. But I would not be at all surprised if it turns out to be a $200- $300 violin, at most. But that still is an OK return on a $50 investment.

 

As to condition, I don't see any major issues with the current violin, though there could well be cracks that don't show in the photos. It needs a tailpiece and bridge, but that is a very minimal repair.
I note that the $1800 instrument in the Skinner's auction was also lacking a bridge and tailpiece.
Condition would be relevant if it needed $1000 of work; but the bridge and tailpiece would be less than $100 in a violin shop, and would not have a major effect on value.

 

Would it be easy to assemble that myself? If not, I reckon the labor to have it "reassembled" would be pretty reasonable.

 

I hope the bows haven't become warped by keeping the hairs tight for god knows how long. :-/

 

As a side note, I hope the kid who carved into the ribs was good and grounded.

 

It's best to leave work like that to a professional. If the sound post is still there, it will most likely need to be adjusted, and unless you know what you're doing, you can end up ruining the instrument. If you're in the Washington DC area, Michael Weller has done outstanding work for me, and I'd highly recommend him. Don Cohen, his partner, does beautiful work on bows, and would be able to assess whether or not it's worthwhile to restore them. They are in Alexandria, VA.

 

I'd agree entirely with Brenda, best to have a professional do it. The tailpiece does go on with just a loop of gut or today plastic; but it has to be the right length, and it can be a pain to get it right. I have done it myself though.
But you'd need to get the loop at a violin shop anyhow.
And though the bridge just sits under the strings, it has feet that have to match the curve of the violin top, and it needs to be in the right spot.
An experienced violinist is able to replace a bridge, but again, best to have a shop do it.
And yes, the sound post may well be missing or in the wrong place, and setting a sound-post is a job for a pro.

 

PS,
None of the violin dealers I was visiting last weekend (at the Wintergrass Music Festival in Bellevue WA) had ever heard of a Lyon and Healy with a scroll like that shown above. I suspect the seller of Gorn's violin found an indication that his violin had been sold by L&H, and found online a L&H violin that went for $3,500, and jumped to the conclusion that his was worth the same. Comparing with violins I saw for sale at $200, I'd guess Gorn's would be worth no more than that, and possibly less.
PPS, Brenda, you must play, judging by your avatar. Me too; besides violin I do a lot of mandolin, octave mando; viola; Irish tenor banjo.
I actually bought a new violin last weekend, very nice sounding though unlabeled; likely from one of the Markneukirchen makers around 1920. You'd love it. Very full in the bass and sweet in the treble.

 

Here are a couple of images of a Lyon & Healy scroll that I found online. They really do exhibit a more sophisticated level of craftsmanship. But even if your violin isn't worth restoring, you have a nice wall decoration. A friend of mine paints old, scratched-up clunkers, and turns them into beautiful works of folk art.

 

I do play! Mostly classical violin and viola, but I've spent the last several years studying various fiddling styles and working up a duo with my guitar playing husband. I'd love to hear the instrument you picked up! Do you have a website with sound samples?

 

Lyon and Healy apparently imported violins from a number of sources; and some of them were quite good makers, thus the occasional sale of a L&H violin in the thousands. But as with their mandolins, many of the makers were not well-known, or even particularly good, so the value of an old L&H instrument can be anywhere from $50 on up.

I started with classical violin also; branched out into folk guitar, and mandolin and fiddling for the last 25 years or so. I don't have any samples with the new violin. But my main music website (I've got Northwest Coast Native art websites also) does have some clips of my music with various bands, including some with violin, but mostly mandolin; http://bluemando.com

Gulf Coast Highway has some nice violin...
http://civilservants.homestead.com/files/08_-_Golf_Coast_Highway.mp3

and with my wife on autoharp and me on octave mandolin, Shebeg Shemore is a nice track:
http://nsyn.homestead.com/files/05_-_Track_5.mp3

If you have any Youtube videos of yourself and husband, there is a thread for "show your talent" at https://www.antiquers.com/threads/show-us-your-talent.2070/
and I'm sure we'd all enjoy hearing you play. I've got a track or two on that thread, at post #56. There are lots of very talented folks on this board!

(Apologies to Gorn for the thread hijacking; I admit I'm very bad in that respect.)

 

Thanks for the links! We don't have any videos, but plan to make them in the near future. Too bad we can't send private messages here, so we can avoid straying from the topic.

 

Actually, we can send private messages. In the upper right, on the menu bar, is a link to "Inbox." Hover over it, and the drop down will include ongoing conversations, and the option to "start a new conversation."

 

Here's a link to a searchable directory of violin shops; members of the American Federation of Violin and Bow Makers, they subscribe to a code of ethics and should be qualified to do honest appraisal as well as repair.
http://www.afvbm.org/american-federation-of-violin-and-bowmakers-member-directory

 

Would LOVE to see the Folk Are she does on them!!!!!