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Message:: [QUOTE="Ladybranch, post: 53738, member: 44"]>The first picture is one of the Popes named Celestine (Celestinus) - There were 5 of them. Figuring out which one might be possible if you can figure out what it says after the word "der" after his name.< Fig, the more I have looked at the first pic, I also think it is Celestine. With der dritt after it would make him Celestine the Third. He was pope from 1106-1198. He is usually portrayed wearing this type of headdress and carrying a Papal cross staff. On this pic his name looks spelled as Celiftinus.As "s" was usually written to look like "f" back when, this easily would be the name Celestinus/Celestine. As to thus staff being a papal cross or a Cross of Lorraine, I suspect that round/eclipse thingy in the staff represents the 3rd cross bar making it a Papal Cross. The more I look at the 3rd pic, I wonder if it is depicting a king rather than a pope. He seems to be holding an orb. Rulers are usually portrayed holding orbs. I don't seem to remember seeing popes holding orbs? He may be holding a scepter in his other hand? The scepter or possibly a staff seems to have an odd shape cross at the top. I can't make out the shape well enough. Am including a over colorized pic of that scepter or staff in hopes someone will recognize. I still can't make out the name. --- Susan[ATTACH=full]13666[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]