Featured JELLIFF COUCH OR NOT?

Would you say this is a jelliff couch? Found on Craigslist for a absolute steal, I am just now within the last year starting to learn more about certain makers during the era and this screamed John jeliff to me.

 

Prices are a hard thing to pin down.....what do you consider a steal ?

 

By saying a steal, I mean a steal if it Is in fact a John jeliff couch. They want $300 for it. I saw the ad and came to you guys because I don’t know how to authenticate if it would be John jeliff or not. Looks the style to me.

 

Well...

The way I see it, if the MET can't tell for certain, I certainly can't, either! Even they have a piece "attributed to" Jelliff:
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/7599
Attributed to John Jelliff

I saw this bit on the Antique Trader site and thought it was relevant:

Many dealers and auctioneers, when at a loss for descriptive material for a catalog or advertisement, easily fall into the “attribution pit.” Surrounding this deep pit is a long slippery slope lubricated with terms like “it looks just like …,” “it’s the same style as …,” and “there was one at…” It’s at the point where almost any piece with upholstery featuring a carved head and face is “attributed to Jelliff.” It is true that John Jelliff (1813-1893) of New Jersey is responsible for some parlor sets with head and face carvings. But so did a number of other cabinetmakers and carvers.

And Jelliff wasn’t even in the business when most of the Renaissance Revival sets attributed to him were made. Jelliff actually retired in 1860 and his company was taken over by an employee, Henry H. Miller, who continued the business under Jelliff’s name until 1890. So is that parlor set an artifact of John Jelliff & Co.? If it has the simple brand used by Miller after Jelliff retired, “J.J. Co.” it probably is. If it is unmarked it probably isn’t.

https://www.antiquetrader.com/antiques/antique-furniture/buying-selling-avoid-attribution-pit/

 

Thank you, helpful information!

 

*$400 btw typo. I just have seen the crazy high prices these Can go for and thought what a steal if it is Jeliff.

 

Are you buying it to enjoy or resell ? If to resell,$300 is probably the max youll ever get. If you're very lucky. I know here in florida stuff like this languishes for years . Even the "big" names in victorian furniture have taken an enormous hit. if you are buying it to enjoy,then thats a good price for a lovely piece of furniture.

 

Not

 

Wasn't trying to be flip there, just answering your question.

Yeah is, the thing is, even if your couch had a Jelliff label (which it doesn't), that does not mean it is in fact built by Jelliff
"According to "American Cabinetmakers, Marked American Furniture 1640-1940" by William Ketchum, Crown Publishers, John Jelliff (1813-1893) was a cabinetmaker in New Jersey who worked from 1836 to 1843 in partnership with Thomas Vantilburg. He then has his own shop in Newark until retiring in 1860. After he retired, his business was taken over by Henry Miller who ran it under Jelliff's name until 1890.

It's hard to attribute something directly to John Jelliff, even with a label. The only change to the label when Miller took over in 1860 was the addition of the word "Co." to Jelliff's mark. Thus "John Jelliff & Co." and "J.J. Co." indicate work by Miller's shop, not Jelliff. Add to that the fact that while Jelliff's work, and Miller's for that matter, were distinctive, they were by no means unique. In 19th century shops sometimes many hands were involved in the carving and construction, making identification of a given face almost impossible. And those hands often worked in different shops during a short period of time."

Agrees, i am goin with johnny on this one.
If buying for yourself then that's fine, if buying to flip at a profit, probably not a good idea. Most victorian furniture is going for a song these days unless museum quality with rock solid provenance.

 

https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/s...orian-revival-parlor-set-1800s/id-f_12494022/

 

Thank you for the information. I am relatively new to antiques (collecting and learning furniture for 3 years or so) and am young so I was not around any of this stuff but I learn a lot from posting here so thanks guys!

 

Lots of similarities. Guess that’s where the “attributed to” comes about lol.

 

Yeah, according to this seller on 1stdibs if you noticed..........

Details

• PLACE OF ORIGIN
  Europe
• DATE OF MANUFACTURE
  1880
• PERIOD
  1880-1889

• MATERIALS AND TECHNIQUES
  EbonizedWood
• CONDITION
  Fair
• WEAR
  Minor structural damages.

• DIMENSIONS
  H 44 in. x W 72 in. x D 36 in.H 111.76 cm x W 182.88 cm x D 91.44 cm
• SEAT HEIGHT
  11.5 in. (29.21 cm)
• SELLER LOCATION
  Vancouver, CA

 

Its a wonderful and fascinating hobby,but be warned,you will never learn everything no matter how hard you try ! When I joined here I thought myself quite the little smartypants,having been an enthusiast for most of my life,but how quickly I realized I knew very little indeed !

 

Not ' that ' little !!

 

https://www.prices4antiques.com/Fur...val-Jelliff-John-Rosewood-Femal-D9778441.html


https://www.prices4antiques.com/Fur...-Jelliff-John-Rosewood-Bronze-M-D9906178.html

lot passed
http://en.51bidlive.com/Item/186735

apparently it was his "hamburger" style

 

That's nice.

 

Amen to that I have been doing this stuff for 40 years and still learning and need help