Lidded Fluted Silver Plate Ice Bucket - H.B. Chelsea w/ English 1891 Rd No - ID?

I started cleaning this piece up tonight, and areas I thought were extensive brassing just turned out to be tarnish. Still a ways to go, but it is already looking like a nice piece.

What I thought would be easy - identifying the manufacturer - is turning out to be the difficult part. The marks on the underside are in good shape, but I've drawn a blank so far at putting a name to the H.B. that appears to be the maker.

Near the edge is an English registration number 145502 which I am getting 1891 as the associated date. The CHELSEA in the oval hasn't helped with the identification so far.

The piece weighs 1 pound 6.3 ounces (630 grams). It is about 6-1/2 inches to the top of the knob with the lid closed. The rim is about 4 inches in diameter with the foot about 3-5/8 inches in diameter to its outside edge.

I've been on the lookout for marks elsewhere on the piece, but haven't found any. There are a variety of very faint marks on the underside, but the only ones that seem clearly intentional are just below the Chelsea oval where I see AJ / ? in lower case script, followed by 4 / 26.

I've hunted around a bit for comparables but don't see anything quite like this.

My questions are:
1. Is this in fact an ice bucket or am I getting the piece ID wrong?
2. Can anyone help with the H.B. identification?
3. Has anyone seen anything like this design (or know of any comparables)?

Thank you in advance! I'm excited at the way it is cleaning up - the tarnish hid a pretty cool looking piece! ... Dave

 

Have you looked into Harrison Brothers and Howson? I don't see an exact match but at least one of the examples shown in the link includes a symbol quite similar to the one that follows HB on your bucket.

http://www.silvercollection.it/electroplatesilverH.html#HARRIS

 

Good morning Bakersgma! Yes, I came across them earlier today, but wasn't getting enough things to fit to conclude it was them. I just followed your link to take another look (and there is a link from that page to one with a bunch of examples of their sterling and plate marks). Here's what's holding me back:
1. They seemed to be pretty good about including an "EP" or plate mark, but we don't have one here.
2. The cartouche shape around the "B" (oval) differs.
3. I couldn't connect the CHELSEA to them (although maybe that is associated with a seller).

I do see them using the fleur di lis mark on some plate items. I don't see them with any reg. numbers either.

I'm still open to them as a possibility - maybe we just aren't seeing any of their marks close to this time period and the other ones are too different.

??????? ... Dave

 

'Chelsea' is possibly a pattern/design name - and it's more likely a biscuit barrel...

~Cheryl

 

Thank you Cheryl! That item ID fits better and a quick search shows some with that handle shape. I'll do another search for comps in a little while, now that I know what the proper use of the piece is.

 

Is it possible the B indicates date & not maker?

 

Doubtful.

 

Thank you for those fine clear photo's...........really !!!!

 

I agree - biscuit barrel.

 

Just some blokes in a shed somewhere.

Knowing which unknown and forgotten makers produced it is not useful knowledge, and the date of the registration mark could be decades before the thing itself was made, all you know from a registration mark is that it was no earlier than date registered.

What you have is a conventional Edwardian or early George V biscuit barrel in silver plate.

Res ipsa loquitor. The thing speaks for itself regardless of maker, this goes for many things where the question is who made it and most of the time the answer is no one significant.
It is not who made it, it is what it is.

 

It may speak for itself if you have seen it - my challenge is to give it a chance to speak. When I list it, if I only have the generic information, I'll have some population of viewers. But there may be a particular maker of special interest that certain buyers are searching for. Without pursuing this research to some extent, it is quite likely that the buyers you want to see it won't know about it.

I'm also trying to make sure that it is in fact plate. I don't believe it is sterling, but still feel it is odd that there is not a clear EP or other positive plate mark. By the late 19th century, that was pretty standard. And the quality of the piece belies the idea of a non-significant maker. There are still some puzzles here, and it helps to maximize possible sale value to know the answers.

 

Forgot to add -- totally agree on the registration number. It just establishes the earliest date in the same manner as a patent number, so it could have been made anytime thereafter. Not quite as useful as a date code letter in a sterling mark.

 

I believe in this too, so it aggravates me no end that cameos of merely competent quality are always going to be valued above some that are masterly, when the former are signed with a name known from the literature & the latter are unsigned.

 

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...research-guides/registered-designs-1839-1991/