Featured Meissen Crossed Swords Mark

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by kraftblue, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. kraftblue

    kraftblue Well-Known Member

    Picked up this bowl today. There is a number (23) in the swords. Would that mean the year?

    mei1.JPG mei2.JPG mei3.JPG mei4.JPG mei5.JPG mei6.JPG mei7.JPG
  2. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    A little bit of work went into that! Beautiful.
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  3. blooey

    blooey Well-Known Member

    Agreed, a beauty!
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  4. anundverkaufen

    anundverkaufen Bird Feeder

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  5. blooey

    blooey Well-Known Member

    Good call @anundverkaufen - lovely thing in it's own right too!

    The only mysterious thing about it being Choisy etc, is that AFAIK they were primarily majolica makers and this bowl wasn't made by a factory inexperienced with working in porcelain ..plus it looks EXTREMELY Germanic, All that blumen and reticulated work ..Is it possible another German maker copied the Choisy-le-Roi mark which itself copied the Meissen mark?
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
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  6. Jeff Drum

    Jeff Drum Well-Known Member

  7. blooey

    blooey Well-Known Member

    I think it's all BS - all this porcelain stuff out there called "Choisy-le-Roy" is not French, some other factory in Germany using the mark is my call.
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  8. blooey

    blooey Well-Known Member

    That etsy bowl is far too sloppy to be 18thc., 20thc. is more like it.
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  9. Jeff Drum

    Jeff Drum Well-Known Member

    The etsy bowl is just about identical to the OP bowl. I agree not the quality of 18th century meissen; that was clear before even looking at the marks (e.g. far too thick). But the Choisy-le-roy mark was supposedly used up until the late 19th century when Meissen sued to prevent its further use, which is presumably when these would have been from.
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  10. kraftblue

    kraftblue Well-Known Member

    Wow! Alot of great info you guys have given! Thank you!
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  11. J Dagger

    J Dagger Well-Known Member

    Pretty bowl either way!
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  12. blooey

    blooey Well-Known Member

    They didn't make porcelain at Choisy-le-Roy, though, just pottery, and not in that style either.
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  13. Jeff Drum

    Jeff Drum Well-Known Member

    I'm just quoting from the link anundverkaufen provided:

    Choisy-le-Roy (France – Seine)

    Founded in 1786 – By: M. Clément
    Used From: 1786 – 1886

    In 1886, after an official complaint by Meissen, Choisy-le-Roy was forbidden to make further use of the crossed swords mark.

    I can't vouch for its accuracy, but antique-marks.com seems to be a pretty reliable source. I have run into similar porcelain that is in the same decoration style, and I believe it to be 19th century French.
  14. blooey

    blooey Well-Known Member

    Yes, I read that link and yes, that is the mark etc.
    I just don't agree that the porcelain bearing that mark was made at Choisy-le-Roy. The pottery maybe, but not the porcelain which I think is a mis-attribution - perhaps universally (internet) accepted, but nevertheless incorrect.

    In fact, I would be very surprised to see ANY French porcelain decorated in the Deutsche Blumen style - apart from mis-attributed Choisy-le-Roy articles and Samson copies of Meissen originals.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
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  15. Jeff Drum

    Jeff Drum Well-Known Member

    Well, maybe this will clarify things. There are two different companies, Choisy-le-roi and Choisy-le-roy. It is the Choisy-le-roi company that made mostly majolica.

    The other company, Choisy-le-roy is the one that antique-marks is talking about using the Meissen-like mark. I don't know whether that is true or not, or what they are basing their citation on, or even how reliable antique-marks is. So you could be right that this is a mis-attribution? Does antique-marks have other known problems?

    Nevertheless, the Choisy-le-roy company is documented in other reliable sources. Kovels Pottery and Porcelain 1650 to 1850 has a mark for Choisy-le-roy described as "France, Hard-paste porcelain, established 1785". The online site oldandsold.com has the same mark as Kovels for the Choisy-le-roy company, 30 below, and they also have the Choisy-le-roi mark, 31 below:
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