Mystery Item, perpetual calendar?

I can't figure out how it deals with February. If the 28th is a Friday then the 1st is a Tuesday??????

 

The centre revolves so it can be changed to correspond with the correct day for each month.

 

I think this brass item is an old floor cover for a gas fireplace regulator......
I had one in the 1906 house I once owned......but finding a picture of it has been unfruitful ....so far..

 

It unscrews from the back so if that was what it was you would have to be behind it to unscrew it, I'm sure it was designed to be a perpetual calendar

 

If the centre was merely rotatable, this is possible, but it has a heavy gauge thread, quite redundant and actually a bit of a drawback as turning it wiill make the centre more or less raised or lowered from the flush position.
I remain sure it is converted from some relatively modern brass parts by a hobbyist.

 

Hummm..OK.....it does now...but I suspect at one time those two holes in the center plate unscrewed that plate upwards with the help of a key of some sort....

but that's just my take on things as I see them.......

 

These two holes (not really holes) were where the vents were when this was cast in green sand, when they poor the molten metal in the green sand mold the metal cools, if you don't have a reservoir of molten metal above (gravity feed) to fill the shrinkage from the part you need to cast as it cools a void will accrue in the part your are trying to cast. You can also see how the brass has been worn smooth by many many years of fingers changing the days for each month, this would have only happened once a month, just one of the reasons I think this is very very very old.

 

what you say may well indeed be true.....but to my eye it reminds me of something else that was crudely repurposed .....

Sorry....I could be way off base...but I see..what I see !

 

Ok tomorrow I will do my best to undo the top screw on the main plate (the one I couldn't remove before) and hopefully we may get an answer. I do agree the brass part in the picture above could be it but the ageing on mine looks to be ancient.

 

Here's what it keeps looking like to me. If it needed to be flush with the container, it'd look something like the second one. The wear may have been from when it was in use as a gas cap, canteen cap, solvent can cap.

 

Before the gradual spread of literacy and numeracy in the mid 19th C onwards, poor people would have no need of a perpetual calendar, or indeed, any calendar. The church dealt with calendars in terms of Easter, Advent, Christmas, Saint's days, fast days and festivals.
When considering the origin of old objects it is well to be aware of the social history of the periods they may have originated in.

This item does not fit into a historical context any other time than its probable origin around 1900. Much earlier and anyone wanting such an item would have gone to a mathematical instrument maker (and these have been around since the sixteenth century, and were well established in the seventeenth century) and specified and bought an instrument because they would have been relatively rich.
This item is not well designed or well made, it is quite consistent with a home made object fashionned from available parts.

Any claim of greater antiquity should be supported by evidence of similar objects, even examles of the use of similar styles of numbering and lettering from the period you suspect it may be from.

Brass is quite reactive as a metal alloy, different surroundings can make a lot of difference to apparent aging. It also tends to get polished a lot if someone prefers shiny to dull.

I don't know if it is true or not in detail, but around 1970 a Central European maker produced a large number of reasonably historically accurate lantern clocks supposedly made by Thomas Moore of Ipswich. They were good enough to pass for antique in a poor light or to someone not quite as clever as they thought they were, but the problem was they looked too new.
This is the part that may not be true but should be. Brighton has a pier over a shingle beach with a big tidal range. Antique dealer or dealers would drop a clock or three off the pier into the water at high tide. A mere 6 ot 7 hours in the sea water, being rolled around on the shingle by the waves served to 'distress' the solidly made brass and ironwork quite well, and they could be retrieved at low tide easily.

Old brass is almost impossible to date without other evidence than its appearance.

 

I can add nothing conclusive, but here is what logic tells me: this is unlikely to be any sort of calendar, as the months and dates are on the same ring; they do not rotate relative to one another, and I can't see any easy way to use them to indicate any date.
As it sits, this appears to be purely a decorative item, framed for display and not to be used for anything.
To me that suggests it is not a genuine item made for any use, but a fantasy item intended to give the impression of something made for use. Much like the steampunk fans will assemble a collection of gears that looks impressive, but doesn't actually do anything.
And on the appearance of age, I know of Indonesian carvers who think nothing of making a wooden carving, sometimes with metal hinges, and burying it in the backyard for six months. You'd be amazed how old those carvings look once they are hosed off. They could easily scavenge the garbage dumps for old screws, and are experts at making fake patina, or putting new brass in an antique frame.
Sorry to be a skeptic, and apologies if I offend through bluntness, but that's how it looks to me. I've had a lot of experience with fakes and fakers, and when there are people whose business involves fooling others, they can be darn good at it; and most people do not have much experience with items that have been intentionally faked. Because they do not approach with the idea that "maybe this is a fake" they can be easily misled.
The fakers' business model depends on this.
Not saying any of this applies to your item; but speaking only for myself, I would never ignore that possibility.

 

I can think of one way to use it as a perpetual calendar though: put three hands on the center hole, individually movable; point to a day with one, to a month with another, to a date with the third. That could work, without rotating any of the brass parts.
Compare https://www.rubylane.com/item/362270-160101/Vintage-Standing-Brass-Zodiac-Astronomical-Astrological
and note that the ruby lane item was made for decorative purposes, and is not as old as it might appear from the spelling of the months ("januarius" and so on)

 

So all things considered, that may be a pretty good guess; but my guess would be that it is not nearly as old as it appears, maybe 1960s or later, even. And perhaps from India, where primitive-looking screws may be more common than in Europe or the US.

 

I didn't pay a great deal for the item so it would have been uneconomical for them to go to such lengths, I admit it could have been made to fool somebody else who might have paid more but I have shown it to a number of antique dealer friends and none have said it's recent, I also sent detailed pictures to a London valuer who used to work for Sotheby's, and Christie's and asked for his point of view, this is what he said...... "I think this is a country made piece, may be a blacksmith, and probably copying another example. The font suggests early 19th century - but could be late 18th. It doesn't matter a great deal.
It is crudely made and functional and not by a maker (or even apprentice maker I think) that will be sought after. It has lovely naive quality about it that will appeal more to the country oak buyers than to an instrument collector I think. Value is a moot point as it is a one off, but I would guess perhaps mid hundreds and see what sort of response the room gives. In the US there is a much stronger naive following than in the UK, so choose a good folk art sale and it may surprise us all"... I wasn't really happy with his vague answer so I have been asking around to see if anybody had anything definitive. No matter what the so called experts say it is just their opinion, for an example I sent a picture of my Khatam cabinet to another so called expert (facebook) he insisted it was made in the 1960's

 

Related to Nautical or Astronomical???? Looks old (1800s) to me..........

 

If I keep asking someone will have seen something like it, I can't see it being the only one ever made.

 

well, your london guy says it's a one off.....and I for one agree with that statement......unless the same craftsman made more than one.....but even then....how many....and did they survive..?

but...he also said......
"I would guess perhaps mid hundreds and see what sort of response the room gives."

Just old, does not mean valuable.....& you can tell he's covering his ass !!!

 

Oh I'm sure I wouldn't get loads for it, his estimation was, auction £400-£600 and insurance £1000, I didn't think that was realistic but I more wanted to know what is was, if I wanted to sell it on, without knowing exactly what it is I'll get nothing for it.