Need help in identifying an object: Is that human remains found inside antique cutlery's handlebar?

Discussion in 'Metalware' started by seven_williams, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. seven_williams

    seven_williams New Member

    The object looks like a German antique silver cutlery item with a dragon on the blade.

    Image in good resolution:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/x9lqdcu17cf4e8x/Mystery_Item.jpg?dl=0

    The blade has a maker's stamp "MARPÉ" and "900" with some royal symbols.

    The handlebar has an inscription: "Secondle a.D Wolf", "1869-1871", "zum 1 April 1897". It was rattling like gems :) so we decided to open it but it seems like it wasn't a very good idea. The inside looks like sandy stones that easily crush into very fine sand.

    Any ideas what this is? Who is Secondle Wolf? What the years mean? What's inside? Can that be a human remains?

    Would very much appreciate any clues or advice!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  2. seven_williams

    seven_williams New Member

    More images
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Hollyblue

    Hollyblue Well-Known Member

  4. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    No, no, no. :hilarious: Hollow handles for cutlery have always been filled to keep them from denting too easily or from being crushed by a strong grip. The "cement" or other filler in older ones does eventually dry out and degrade into lumps. As for the rest of your questions, I need to do research, but I'll be back.

    (What an imagination you have!)
     
  5. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    Okay. The 900 and the symbols of a crescent moon and crown mean that the item was made in Germany of a silver alloy consisting of 900 parts per 1000 of silver (the remaining 100 parts of other metals, usually copper. The MARPE in the separate cartouche may be either the maker or retailer (although I did not find that name in either of 2 good online sources for German silver makers.) I could also search for the tiny symbol to the left of the 900 IF you can get a closer picture of that. A symbol in such a position is almost always associated with a specific maker.

    The engraved words and dates on the handle are likely related to the owner, but I have no idea who that person is. Following 1869-1871 and before the date in April 1897 is the word zum which translates in English as either "until," "to," or "through" depending on context.
     
  6. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    I like the idea. Maybe order a sterling silver funerary table service, with orders that the handles be packed with my ashes, and engraved with my dates (not my name... let the numbers become a mystery over time). Initially, at least, give the relatives a bit of me to fight over.
     
  7. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    You're so funny, MOS. :rolleyes:
     
  8. seven_williams

    seven_williams New Member

  9. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    that sandy stuff is probably the rest of the dried-out putty which they used to fix the blade into the grip.
    the mark is probably 800 with crown and crescent moon, on the left of it the makers mark.
    the inscription is looks like Secondelt. a.D. for Secondelieutenant ausser Dienst (retired).
    1869 - 1871 is the active period of service including the Franco-Prussian war and the third voluntary year to get the lieutenant rank.
    1897 was probably his retirement after 28 years of service.
     
  10. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    Can you post that picture directly here, please.
     
    Any Jewelry likes this.
  11. seven_williams

    seven_williams New Member

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    I was hoping the new picture would be the mark.
     
    Any Jewelry likes this.
  13. seven_williams

    seven_williams New Member

     

    Attached Files:

    Bakersgma likes this.
  14. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    Boy, they really squeezed that in there. This may take some time.
     
    i need help and seven_williams like this.
  15. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

  16. Aquitaine

    Aquitaine Is What It IS! But NEVER BORED!

    HAHAHAHA!!!! MOS....you beat me to the idea.....just what I was going to say....or at least similar......put my ashes (+ co-mingled with dogs) in handles and will to a specific person upon my demise!!!!! LOVE IT!!!!!
    SheDevilTiny.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  17. Aquitaine

    Aquitaine Is What It IS! But NEVER BORED!

    @Bakersgma I posted this to see if it would help you at all........

    zzzzObject and stampXX.jpg
     
  18. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Aquitaine. I had blown up seven_williams' image to 300% and got about the same thing.
     
    Aquitaine and Christmasjoy like this.
  19. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Human remains? The human mind is a mystery.:playful:
    Looks like it.
     
    i need help and Aquitaine like this.
  20. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    Marpé was a silver manufacturer in Dresden. BUT with these "Fischvorlegebesteck" (just in case someone wants to goggle it...) :cat:
    the blademaker and handlemaker were often not the same company.
    for the mark:
    http://www.auktion-bergmann.de/ufItemInfo.aspx?a_id=71&i_id=140548&s_id=6110

    to value: on the continent most probaly not more than silver value because nobody uses those special service tools anymore; fork missing; millions made for birthdays, as gifts etc.
     
    cxgirl, Aquitaine and Bakersgma like this.
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