Featured need information on 3 little cups

I personally like these three cups BEcause of the folksy charm but when you see the rest that I have you will see why I have to decide. My daughter might decide she likes them or they are small enough to slip in a corner. Ha ! my corners are filled.

 

It is not kitchen Qing and I believe you are correct. Used by hawkers and intended for rough handling.

 

Hi Ken

Are you saying that the expression Kitchen Qing is incorrect, or that the tea cups are not Kitchen Qing or that they might be but you have another term or description or appraisal of what they are properly called?

 

I don't think they are kitchen Qing, which has "Peranakan" connotations, even though they were exported worldwide. I would term them as just Minyao wares (wares of the common people). "Boerenming" sounds like an ideal description, but they look more Qing dynasty to me. Qing dynasty minyao/provincial ware, maybe?

 

I am sure glad you guys know your stuff. I have to read these multiple times to keep the terms straight. Thanks for the info.

 

I looked up your term Boerenming and it matches the stack of bowls and plates I was going to post next. Maybe i wont have to post them now.

 

No you should post them, it cannot be that simple

 

Very Good Ken,

Anything not made in the Imperial Kiln or for the Imperial Kiln was considerd Minyao ware or ordinary porcelain. I disagree with you that this tea cup should be described as Qing dynasty Minyao/provincial ware. Minyao ware was nearly always marked at the base, some exports were not so it is unlikely to be Minyao ware at all. Antique western export and oriental export porcelain is rarely marked to the base. So it is more likely to be an export but not to the West but to a more provincial destination and likely as utility connected to an Asian way of life.

So Kitchen Qing while incorrect, as most exports to south east asia were also base marked and this export was not base marked, nonetheless 'Kitchen Qing' is still a more appropriate description as it was destined for a similar provinicial purpose.

If we can define it further we can then depart with the description 'Kitchen Qing' and call it nonya blue and white porcelain,Straits Chinese porcelain etc...

However when a piece that could be from the 12th century or the 19th century has only 1 characteristic, it was an export for a provincial destination then I do admire the term Boerenming and i am most grateful to learn of it but when the item is from the Qing era and the item is an export for a provincial destination then 'Kitchen Qing' works fine until you can more accurately describe it with better reference.

The use of the term Minyao ware is sometimes used by auction houses to distinguish a Kangxi bowl that is of such artistic merit as that as not being a Chinese Export. They are usually always marked.

There is merit for every description but Minyao is nearly always marked and can be from any era and can be Kangxi while 'Kitchen Qing' the best description for these types of ware, even if it is not technically 'Kitchen Qing'.

I stand by the simplicity of the term 'Kitchen Qing'.

 

Thank you again. The other plates and bowls I have are more like the Boerenming ware i saw when I googled the term. All of these terms are new to me. I will get some pictures of them soon.

 

Thank you for your view.

As far as I know, min yao just means "of the common people" and as such there is no need for them to be marked. As I said, these 3 bowls were probably made as rough roadside restaurant wares, the type used by itinerant hawkers or found in stopover rest houses in China (the type in which there is inevitably a fight in old kungfu films), or used by coolies abroad.

Kitchen Qing was invented as a term in an effort to separate colourful festive nonyaware used predominantly by the Peranakans, from their daily use blue-&-white wares. One mistake that book made was to include all provincial B&W wares, the finer as well as the crude. Whereas the colourful variety featured were predominantly used by the Peranakans, some of the coarser B&W variety were not. That book compared a crate of different coloured apples to a crate of different coloured fruits.

Nonya daughters were given 2 sets of crockery for their wedding: the "kitchen Qing" was meant for daily use and the colourful variety for festive use, as the overglazed enamels would be melted by the oily food in no time at all. These 3 bowls would be considered too cheap to be given as a wedding present and would be a loss of face for the family.


For the Peranakans, the finer ware was called "Shanghai ware", which includes the finer B&W wares, the really fine ones. The coarse ware they called "batik ware". These 3 bowls would fall under the latter category, if at all. Of course Peranakans could also use them in the kitchen - for cooking and condiments, but not to eat from unless they were impoverished - hence "kitchen Qing" is not wrong of course, but I still prefer boerenming or, to coin another term, boerenqing... farmers' ware in the Ming and Qing periods.

I hope I am not seen as insulting the beauty of these bows, as I love rustic charm myself, quite often preferring the crude to the fine.

Post script: Flipping through the book again, I see vases, chamber pots and some pieces which could well have been taken as family heirlooms by the indigenous peoples, so again the term "kitchen" doesn't sit too well with me.

 

All this information and discourse is wonderful . I have enjoyed reading and learning so much. My parents bought quite a bit of these Qing dishes. My father thought they were used as ballast in ships coming from China to Jakarta. I do not know about that but it would make some sense. This discussion reminds me of comparing restaurant stoneware to Meakin !

 

Fascinating read, really appreciate the knowledge and detail you have on this subject. You have shone a light on an area i knew very little. AJ's Boerenming term, and the new term boerenqing are great to have now.

This is a big subject comprising many different countries and regions and cultures and terminologies. I guess there is always going to be a longer discussion on any one point and I appreciate learning so much on the subject.

Thanks Ken for a thorough discussion. Not many people are familiar with Boeren ming/qing and I know if asked what Boerenqing is then i will have to say well it is like kitchen Qing but better

 

thank you all again. I have add all this info to my "Tidbits" from Antiquers file. I have just post 3 more bowl from I think the same time period. I have about 20 items all together. So just a few at a time.

 

Hi Lark

I Look forward to seeing them but I am not good on Ming and or Song. Kangxi is my starting point, but mind you I might spot a Ming when i see one.

 

Haha, you are absolutely right! There is no boerenqing yet, but if there were I think it should be on par with the quality of kitchen Qing... charming, utilitarian, rough, rustic wares, honest and unassuming.