Featured Old Chinese or Japanese paintings? Date?

Recently acquired these but have difficulties placing them. Are they Japanese or Chinese? It shows how they used to make porcelain. First one they are digging for the ingredients and the second one shows the kilns. It looks like they have some aged to them. It's painted on laid paper probably 1700s early 1800s (don't know if the artwork it self is also that old or later made)

Other question. Should I take them out of he frame or keep the sealing intact ? It looks to me like the mat is covering a big part like the trees and roof of the kiln. Seems therefore likely that there could be a signature hidden beneath the mat. But would they cover a signature with mat on a artwork? Any suggestions?

Any info/input is welcome.

 

They are Chinese.
In the 19th century the Chinese produced several series of books for the western market on life in China. Yours are from a book about porcelain production, possibly including trade, etc.
Another example is halfway down this page:
https://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/21f/21f.027/rise_fall_canton_04/cw_gal_03_thumb.html
They weren't made to be framed, so there would be more behind the mat. I can't tell if they are original.

 

Thx Any-jewelry. That could be a possibility and yes they are original hand done watercolors.. I had a look at the link. They indeed have similair subjects. I do find them a bit architectural drawn. Mines are a bit more traditional style.

What a project to draw for every book a different painting. Why not print them

 

They are probably from different parts of China. The brightly coloured ones in the link are typical of the Cantonese (Guangdong, southeast China) style.

 

I think they depict porcelain production: kilns, bowls being made and those hanging baskets that they used to transport the porcelain from place to place. Even from Jingdezhen to another location, in case of export porcelain, walking a narrow and difficult path in mountainous areas to get the porcelain to a river where it would be loaded on boats that would take it further down to Canton.

 

Oh you were quicker! The difference being, I don't know anything about the subject and have only seen a documentary about porcelain production.

 

Benny also mentioned the kilns.

 

Thx all for the input.
update. I went ahead and opened up the frame.
Unfortunately no missing details under need the mat (where these cut out? Who knows). The work itself is painted on very thin laid paper (rice paper they call this I believe?) This paper is now laid onto a other piece of ticker paper which looks more modern to me (probably 80's 90's).

@Any Jewelry not so sure now if they are from a book because of the size 37x35cm and the used thin laid paper. Is there maybe a other theory where these can come from. I researched similar works like crazy but none of them match they way they are drawn and sizes.

Any info input is welcome