Old clay pot

Hello All- I have this clay pot which was giving to me about 40 years ago by a friend. At the time I was turning pottery and my friend thought I would enjoy having it. He told me it was pre Columbian,(?) I don't know where he found it and he is long gone now so I can ask him. That's about all I know, is there something here besides a nice old clay pot? Like to hear more if there is more, Thanks, it measures about 4.75 inches in ht. and 5.75 at its width, and has no markings.

 

I don't think there was pre Columbian house plants

 

Hi, Michael, and welcome!

I've cropped your photos and inserted them here, so that others may see them better. Hopefully, someone will be along soon to help you with identification of the pot.

 

Tried to make myself an expert on pre-Columbian pots with the help of Google. Those tiny handles seem to be a characteristic of some, but am not finding any with 4, even though specified in search terms. The most similar are like this:



And that's assuming it is correctly IDed as pre-C.

I don't think it is going to be possible for us to authenticate it with only photos to go by. But there is certainly enough pottery on the market claiming to be pre-Columbian to suggest that pieces are not so rare as all that. No reason to rule out the possibility it is authentic. An expert would have to examine it, unless one could unequivocally say it is fake based on visual cues alone.

 

Thank you

 

It looks like a traditional southern Italian "pignata". The 3 offset handles are characteristic. My first post on this forum was a question about a similar one - but I do not know how to create a link here on my phone. It was posted on Aug 10, 2018 - "Interesting old pot, but what is it?"

 

The pot I posted pics of had four handles, one was broken off along before it was giving to me. Thanks for your comments.

 

Duh. Looking back at my own post I am reminded that the pignatas have 2 handles. Sorry for the confusion.

 

So, I'm only one step ahead of Bronwen, in that I have handled a 'couple' of real pre-Columbian artifacts, e.g., Mogollon (Arizona/Tx), Narino (Peru), and Caddo (Mississippian) cultures, and a few sherds, etc. But, in so doing, I can tell you it is MEGA-difficult to tell from pics whether something is authentic. Fakes abound. Having said that, my first reaction was "hmmm!" in a good way, and then reminded myself to proceed with caution.

Here are the things that bother me, first:

The firing looks 'eh' and not 'deep' enough, i.e., the surface should be pretty sturdy and not flaky. The Narino pot was crafted using a lost wax process that glazed the heck out of it, with designs and beautiful lining, that's lasted a 1000 years. Plain utility pots were obviously a necessity during any period, but if you want to 'fake' you may want to keep it plain and not put too much work into it too.

If it was obtained 40 years ago, 1980, that's right after the laws changed to prevent import of grave goods, pilfered etc and thus lessens the chances your friend obtained a 'real' pot. Not that it can't happen, but it's a 'why risk it' situation. If he bought it with authentication, he's a GREAT friend for giving it to you. I saw that you put the "(?)" after it, so that makes me think it's just a guess, and not a gallery purchase.

Next, Bronwen noted the handles being small. Yes, even SMALLER alot of the time. and often incorporating effigy-designs. But, if utility, plain is possible. The style/shape/design of the pot is both good and bad. It's only 'somewhat' off, and so I can't rule it in or out with my knowledge and more 'instant expert Googling'. Just like the fact it's whole. Could have been 'dug' and found, since Central and South American cultures buried offerings with the dead relatives beneath the floor boards of the houses, and centuries later, a bulldozer comes in and digs up great-great 7x granny with a pot, still whole. But, broken pots were the norm for ancient civilizations as they were broken to free the spirits (keeping that simple). So maybe, maybe not.

Other things that bother me are the lack of manganese spots, that sometimes form on old buried items, basically 'ooze' from the natural elements in the clay. Fakers love to put those on fakes, but there are none here... so that's good. Unless it was buried a long time ... then it's bad. So it's neutral. The surfaces are often "pebble rubbed" to get a fired surface that's smooth, don't see that here, especially given it flakes. So, all I can say is 'not that type of pot.'

The good things are that it's crafted well, and the symmetry is on. all the old stuff has amazing symmetry in my opinion... you'd think hand made meant 'crooked' but to me, quite the opposite. Pics don't tell the whole story... feeling it helps.

Check inside. Is the surface smooth, like somebody spent time with it?

My antiquer side wants to say "what a find" but I'm leaning toward "pottery from Mexico, maybe from 100-150 years ago, and utilitarian" that somebody later 'repurposed' to an unsuspecting buyer as pre-Columbian.

I just don't have enough superpowers yet. Need more spinach.

And after all that, I quote what I should have seen right off the bat in the discussion above:

"No reason to rule out the possibility it is authentic. An expert would have to examine it, unless one could unequivocally say it is fake based on visual cues alone."

What they said.

 

about the 'missing handle' ... that could be a strike against. The break lines on the rim look so clean it suggests a very hard, bricklike firing, something the ancient pottery didn't have, i.e., they shouldn't be like 'china'. So it looks almost like the missing handle 'shattered off' like glass, like china handles on a cup would. The clays used were more porous 1000 yrs ago. The Mogollon pot has actual visual 'layers' you can see along a broken edge... like 'sand grains' in the center in gray that didn't fuse, whereas the surfaces are red or black depending on whether slip was used, almost like an ice cream sandwich. Again, too many variables to know for sure based on visual appearances, but ... that's how things start to 'add up' to reach an opinion.

 

BTW, if an expert said "yes, ancient" I'd guess Costa Rican. Still never seen four handles flush with the top like that (one of the things that were 'somewhat' off to me). But... doesn't mean it can't be.

 

Thank you for your comments and insight. I'm fairly confident there isn't any one near who could look at this and authenticate it. I live 3 hours from the big city, who would I take this to authenticate?

 

You've sorta answered your own question: in the words of a famous movie frat boy: "ROAD TRIP!" Just don't gator on the pot yet.

 

Yes road trip for sure, but who would I look for? I'm guessing I wouldn't just take it to the corner antique shop for a reliable evaluation.

 

You might poke around here:

https://anthro.amnh.org/central

Looks like my search settings are not retained. I looked under the category Containers, subcategory Pots, Jars... for Central America as a start.

 

Yes, of course. Depending on the 'big city' - back doors might include the local anthropology dept of a University... they, like here, are very 'willing' to respond to emails and jot a word or two to get you going, might even be an expert themselves... (I had some 'arrowheads' and was fortunate enough to learn that in my 'big city' [you might have heard of it in the news: D.C., or as I call it, modern day Sodom] within two emails (I started with my alma mater anthro dept) was directed to the director of the first discovered Clovis site on the east coast... he invited me to see him, and I became a kid in his candy shop.) So you never know until you ask. Poke the internet for 'pre Columbian' authors, professors, departments, in the city of your choice, and shoot em an email. Be creative, and don't look for a 'one stop shop' - it may take several tries. Sometimes, the smaller the initial contact the better (the bigger the busier).

 

Thank you Dawnno

 

Allow me to add a bit of perspective: even if it's 'real' you haven't hit a jackpot. It's super cool then to anybody into pre-Columbian art, and you might get $200 for it. A gallery might get $400. Beyond that, it better have jaguar heads on it. So don't spend $150 on gas driving to the universities on a hunt for the perfect expert either. The education might be more valuable than the pot.

I just randomly picked this one for example:



Btw, it's a "100% guaranteed" b/c "I'm sure its all old" from the Aztec, Inca, Native American cultures... one of 'em any way... but all they are asking is $285. So, take it FWIW, i.e, $285 and hope.

 

Well even if it were authentic its not for sale, I just enjoy the history behind it. It was a gift with a fond memory. I will not make a special trip I hear what you saying.