old family porcelain

Discussion in 'Pottery, Glass, and Porcelain' started by smallaxe, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. smallaxe

    smallaxe Well-Known Member

    I know almost nothing about this area, so hopefully someone can tell me something about these pieces. I suspect some family myth busting may be the result. The photos are examples of a set of dishes passed down in my wife's family. They consist of plates, bowls, and what may be tea cups without handles, all with the same transfer designs. The family history is that they are from around the Revolutionary era (of course). Based on what is known of who owned them, they are earlier than 20th century. The previous owner was my wife's 90 year old aunt who received them from her mother who received them from her mother, and murky past that. My guess is 19th century English ware, but family lore says 18th century. The family branch they are associated with was from the general vicinity of Gettysburg, PA. There are no marks anywhere that I can find. I would love to find out what the true story is about what these are, when made, etc. plate top s.jpg plate bottom s.jpg bowl angle s.jpg cup top s.jpg cup side s.jpg
     
    i need help and Any Jewelry like this.
  2. blooey

    blooey Well-Known Member

    I can't identify the maker, but judging by the subject/dress and shape/type of potting I would suggest this ware is English and place these pieces in the early Victorian era, 1840's/50's or so. Just my opinion of course!
     
  3. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

  4. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

    Looks like a mourning scene.
     
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  5. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Which one? And why? I see: two women with jugs getting water at a fountain; a mother & 2 children near a beehive; one I can't see fully. Nothing mournful as I read them. Wonder how many different scenes were used for decoration & whether all show activities.
     
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  6. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

    Oh I have morning eyes, too. I thought the fountain was a willow tree. Nevermind.
     
  7. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    It amazes me how different something can look if my second look is at least half a day later than first. The ways of the brain are mysterious.
     
    Fid, KikoBlueEyes and i need help like this.
  8. Ownedbybear

    Ownedbybear Well-Known Member

    I think earlier than @blooey does: the clothing is late Regency as is the teabowl shape. 1820s ish. Given how white it is, may be pearlware.
     
  9. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly STAY SAFE! The worst prison is a closed heart

    I'd been thinking a bit earlier too. The single transfer without all the borders are similar to bat printed designs that are more like first quarter of the 19th C. I'm trying to look through some books to see if the pattern jumps out but may not get to them all right away.
     
    smallaxe likes this.
  10. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Clothing is late-Regency. High waist and narrow skirts with hints of the full cone-shaped skirts and gigot sleeves that the 1830s will bring.

    Debora
     
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  11. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly STAY SAFE! The worst prison is a closed heart

    The soft rounded shapes of the molding reminds me of the hand painted sprig pieces that I think are 1830-40s ish. While many transfer pieces are earthenware, some of the molded sprig painted pieces I've found are actually some type of porcelain.

    If you hold a piece to a bright light can you see light through it?
     
    smallaxe likes this.
  12. smallaxe

    smallaxe Well-Known Member

    I appreciate all the interesting information. If this helps, it appears that they have underglaze decoration. The set includes over 20 pieces, and they all have the same fountain design, except the tea cups which have the fountain and the beehive with children.
     
  13. smallaxe

    smallaxe Well-Known Member

    Looking at one of the bowls that had been broke in half, the material is very light colored. Held up to a bright light, I can't see through it, but I can see the shadow of my finger through it, so, barely translucent.
     
  14. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly STAY SAFE! The worst prison is a closed heart

    Hmmm well if you can see your shadows of your fingers then it's likely a type of porcelain. Since you have a broken piece, if you're up for it you might try the archaeologist's test for telling earthenware from porcelain. If you touch your tongue to the exposed broken edge (don't pick a sharp edge) your tongue won't "stick" if it's porcelain but if it's an earthenware there will be a bit of suction and you'll feel a slight bit of "stick"to it.
     
  15. smallaxe

    smallaxe Well-Known Member

    It may be porcelain or something very like it. The color of the material is about the same as the white color of the outside, very fine (not gritty), and somewhat translucent. I don't know if this means anything, but on close inspection, there are some scattered fine flecks of cobalt blue apparent in or just under the glaze.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  16. Ownedbybear

    Ownedbybear Well-Known Member

    Could be bone china: fine white clay from Cornwall was being used then.
     
  17. blooey

    blooey Well-Known Member

    It is bone china of course and in my experience, bat-printed designs are much different to these transfer images. Because of the heavy potting, I placed the pieces a little bit later than the 1830's, even though my first reaction was that it could be that early due to the clothing (which did look a bit-but-not-quite Regency-ish)

    I would suggest this is a Staffordshire production, not clear on factory, the ribbing on the heavily potted bowl may be a clue but there were many many factories operating at that time and quite common for wares to be unmarked.
     
  18. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly STAY SAFE! The worst prison is a closed heart

    Yea, not thinking they are bat printed but the simple transfer without border is similar in style.

    I've asked many people over the years what exactly the pieces are that are from round edged molds with a semi translucent body from the 19th C. Over here they are often called soft paste porcelain however that wouldn't be correct in the historical sense. I've never found an answer exactly:(. I've got numerous examples of the sprig painted types so am curious to know more.
     
  19. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    @blooey Would you be so kind as to give an explanation or definition of "bat-printing" please? When I saw the term used in an earlier sentence, I assumed there was a typo involved, Now I see it's a real thing. :)
     
  20. blooey

    blooey Well-Known Member

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