Featured Old ladder back armchair, repair help, age?

Whoa! I really like my chair but wouldn't guess it's in this range.

 

Maybe not, those QA/duck front feet helped it i would say. Still, restored i would guess 700-1200 on your chair which ain't bad.

 

Alrighty then! the chair that started this thread is a very good example of a turned ladder back armchair, guesses late 18th early 19th century (1775-1825), probably built in the New York-New Jersey region. One of the reasons it's difficult to pin down age on these chairs is, they were built for over 200 years, 1700-1900. So, assuming chair is built by hand which it seems to be and since the machine age started here in 1840-1850, that still leaves 150 years or so as possible. That means one must consider other features to help determine age, design features, turning style, finials, etc. Bottom line is, it's tough to get closer than 40-50 years unless other evidence-provenance exists, which is rarely the case.
Which brings us to the point of this post! what preceded these turned ladder back armchairs in America? Turned spindle back armchairs! which were built from just about the time we got off the boat in 1607 in Virginia to 1700 when ladder backs came along.
I have a very firm rule about collecting old furniture, if i can't/don't want to use it then i don't collect it which is why i only own 1 antique chair and no beds. They just don't fit well in the modern world.
Naturally, with every rule there are going to be exceptions and, i just stumbled upon one, a 1650-1700 spindle back armchair which i am researching now & considering breaking my rule.

 

Handsome chair, simple yet not.

I've often wondered about my own chair's origin. While some regions seem like possibilities as you say, hard to know age or origin. Mine came from a house auction and from the people who I think were the owners or relatives of the owners of the house, the area and the people attending, they may have been Mennonites.

 

I'd say on your chair, the finials, the shape of the arms, the turnings on front legs all point to NY or NJ. Naturally that doesn't mean someone who trained there and then moved away to a different location..............

 

The reason i am researching this spindle back is because, there are only 2 known, according to Frances Safford, retired curator at the MET who included the one at the MET in her book. It is from the Bolles collection
Restored at MET

Unrestored when they got chair in 1909

 

I say "my" chair was built in same shop, it's EXACTLY the same turnings, finials and front stretchers that are unusually far apart. The main question is, is my chair a 3rd? or is it simply the same 2nd chair in Saffords footnotes ( footnote number 1) that was advertised in 1967 in Jan. edition of Antiques?
I dunno but, i have ordered a copy of that 1967 mag & it will arrive this Friday and hopefully i will be able to tell. Below is what Safford has to say about chair in her book.

 

Since I am NOT now nor ever have been a chair guy, be advised i am gonna check this chair out EXTENSIVELY! lol
Almost a month till sale so research research RESEARCH!

 

When you get the Antiques Putnam House advertisement that could be interesting. There seem few differences in your chair and the pictured chair.

She comments on the shape of the pommels as if they aren't right yet they look so much like those on "your" chair. I wonder why the comment or why the restorer made them so. I read it that the restoration was done in the 1940s.

 

No, to me they are different, "my" chair the pommels are "flat sided" and have 3 incised rings/lines, where on MET chair they are more "rounded shape which strikes a dissonant note" and no incised rings either. Naturally, I can blow up the pics to whatever size i want which makes things easier to see but i can't post cuz forum doesn't allow!

Well, restorer was working back in the day & was doing what he thought was best and or the directions he was given and, MISTAKES WERE MADE! trust me. If you look at chair # 4 (not shown in pics) they are like "my" chair, flat sided with incised lines.
Also, Safford had the luxury of studying the Bolles collection for her entire career after all, she is a furniture scholar and was examining the "whole" of the collection. Safford is saying in a very polite, academic way "we screwed up the restoration on the pommels on chair # 5".

 

The rest of the pic's of "my" chair in catalogue

 

So the bottom of the back legs are restored?

 

Yep! they are! probably the front legs as well, 5-6" i'd guess. In last pic, the upside down Vs tell the tale, feet/legs are ended out & restored. From the catalogue
"legs ended-out approximately 6 in., stretchers replaced, typical shrinkage cracks, surface wear, traces of later black paint"

 

OOPS, quote was supposed to go in above post, i forgot!
This is "normal" for 17th century chairs, the Bolles chair for example was once a rocking chair! In addition to pommels MIA and stretchers gone
The market is MUCH MORE forgiving on restoration on stuff this old, it has to be, there is no choice really in the real world.

 

Well if you decide to go for it I hope you get it

 

Well, i haven't made a decision yet but, i am positive auction house has no clue about this chair except, it's old! or as they describe it "18th century", it ain't 18th, it's 17th century! and in USA, 17th century is RARE for just about anything!
I also have a feeling "my" chair is the one in 1967 Antique putnam house ad, we shall see friday.
Bottom line is, I am 95% sure it's a period chair which is important i'd say and, worth 4-5k in today's market. If i can pick it up for a song......... it's what i do!

 

While I wait for Mag, it's getting closer! in Greensboro this morning, what preceded spindle back armchair in question? I'm GLAD you asked!
Well, more spindles of course plus a boarded seat, also known as a "Brewster" chair. Wallace Nutting reproductions of this chair sell in the 5k range so a period example is probably priceless, very rare.
C. 1640-1680 Boston or Charlestown at the MET

 

And, the earliest Southern turned chair? Which certainly gives the above NE chair a run for it's money age wise. This little guy, probably built by Dutch immigrants in southeastern Virginia in Cherry and, could be the earliest turned chair extant in America.
C 1640-1660 Chesapeake Region VA.

 

tq SIS and James, love this thread. also learnt how to recane a chair, cos i have my grand dad's chair that is in need of some repair work.

here's the youtube link if anyone's interested:
the lady is a very good, it is amazing how calm her voice is

btw, @James Conrad how would one sit on the spindle chair that appears to be slanting backwards?

 

Well no, seat & stretchers are level or fairly level, the front & back legs are tilted to give the back more comfort & the holes for seat/stretchers are drilled on an angle to accomplish this, if this makes any sense.