Rug, maybe native, maybe not

Discussion in 'Textiles, Needle Arts, Clothing' started by J Dagger, Apr 21, 2024.

  1. J Dagger

    J Dagger Well-Known Member

    Possibly Navajo but very possibly not. Someone thought it was. What say yee’all? 8D53F932-E1B2-4EF1-BB70-EC34F232820C.jpeg 7DE9E558-1E4D-4764-BAEE-97DDB30511DB.jpeg 4E564100-8C12-47D7-B0E1-A2CB2F0917C8.jpeg 9D9C5E23-5B31-4101-A26B-6CFDDF8F21AA.jpeg
  2. Roaring20s

    Roaring20s Well-Known Member

  3. Aquitaine

    Aquitaine Is What It IS! But NEVER BORED!

    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
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  4. Taupou

    Taupou Well-Known Member

    Depends on what you mean by "Native." Everyone is "native" to somewhere, somewhere. If you mean is it Native American Indian, it's not. The Navajo are the only tribe that makes similar rugs, and they use a unique type of loom, which makes it impossible to weave a fringe on both ends. And the hem on the ends is used to hide that fact.

    The Navajo never hem their rugs, or make a thick outside weft edge, which is used on rugs woven on floor looms (not Navajo looms) to help them keep their shape. It is a sign of a "copy" pretending to be Navajo, when you see the thick outside edge, or a warp made up or 3 or more pieces of yarn, especially when it's combined with hemmed ends.
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  5. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Is it two panels stitched together?
    Maybe Moroccan Berber?
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  6. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    @J Dagger - could you please post a closeup of the center seam? And the dimensions?

    I suspect it may have been woven on a floor loom using a technique called "double weave". The weaver is able to produce a cloth twice as wide as their loom by using two sets of warp, one above the other. On one side of the cloth, the two selvage edges are kept separate, while on the other side the shuttle carrying the weft turns the corner and returns on the second set of warp. The join at the edge can be made with each pass of the shuttle or, in the case of your textile, it looks like the weaver did a set number of passes first on the upper warp, then again on the lower warp, alternately passing around the same warp thread at the fold. The pattern created at the center fold is different, and more regular, than if two pieces of cloth are hand sewn together.

    The technique may provide a clue as to origin - though I can't remember right now what regions have used this technique. :banghead:
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  7. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

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  8. J Dagger

    J Dagger Well-Known Member

    A wealth of knowledge as always tapou, 2many, and aj. I knew it didn’t look right for Navajo based on technique but a long time industry seller called it that so I figured I’d mention it. When it’s possible something could be confused as NA by a hopeful bidder they default to calling it NA. Despite personally believing it wasn’t Navajo, when it started picking up bids I started wondering if the bidders were just the hopeful lot I mentioned above or if they knew something I didn’t. I figured I’d better secure it and find out later. Bought at a price I could pretty confidently make my self even Steven at if it turned out to be nothing too good. It seemed interesting enough to take a chance on. Here’s some photos of the center stitching where the halves join. It is definitively a rectangle. There’s also a tag that would be ever so helpful if we could make it out. Maybe Aqua can work her magic here?! Not much left to work with but maybe worth a try.

    After bringing it home it wound up in a spot of honor in my home. I had been in the market for a neutral colored lounge chair for my dining room. In the dark on the way home one day I found the pictured chair on the sidewalk on trash day. Not a very nice chair but it was the size and tilted back form I was hoping for. I could tell it wasn’t perfect but rigged it in my trunk half hanging out and hoped it wouldn’t fall out on the five min drive. The trunk was open and I had only one stretched flimsy bungee that would not reach any solid anchor points to try to keep it in place. Going up the last hill I heard it tumble out and hit the road. Lol. I jumped out and threw it back in and got home. Much too ugly to leave as it was. I was going to throw it back out and remembered this rug had just come in. I think it looks pretty decent and am happy with it until I find the perfect lounger. Even if worthless as a collectible it’s paid for itself in decor and comfort. FB2C158F-3300-4C50-802B-93B39B789814.jpeg 10667DF9-CFC5-43CC-B8CE-8E56B52EFB76.jpeg 8E19F474-1C4D-479D-8ED8-B940411D8987.jpeg E06AB695-1B95-4991-B74E-E462EA395E92.jpeg C19B7038-C774-4E7B-A61B-1A6C1E0226F8.jpeg
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  9. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    It looks good, nice and comfy.:) I would be inclined to fold the sides under and show the central panel for a symmetrical look, but that's just me.
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  10. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    Although you did not provide dimensions, from the size of the chair it looks like the width of each half would be about 30". That would be a typical width for a floor loom used in Mexico and New Mexico in the Spanish tradition.

    I have found some photos of the center seams produced on "Rio Grande" textiles, both using double weave and sewing, that look similar to your textile. Yours may in fact be sewn, based on how the photographed textiles are described, but I would want to carefully examine it and tease the threads apart to see if there is a shared warp at the junction, or a separate sewing thread. But that is just me.

    Rio Grande center seam 2.jpg

    Rio Grande center seam 1.JPG

    Here is some more information on the Rio Grande weaving tradition -

    The design on your piece is simpler than many historic Rio Grande textiles, relying on the natural colors of wool rather than any dyed yarns. And I have not been able to find a comparable design attributed to this tradition. But it may be a vintage, or even more contemporary piece using the same methods, from the same region.
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  11. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

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  12. J Dagger

    J Dagger Well-Known Member

    I had it positioned a bit nicer before I pulled it off to photograph the seam. Maybe I’ll try it as you’ve mentioned. I’ve not got a great eye for design.
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  13. J Dagger

    J Dagger Well-Known Member

    Sounds very convincing and interesting to learn about this distinct form of weaving. In hand the piece tells of some age. As I see it, I’d estimate at least 50-100 years somewhere if I had to. There was actually another one at the same sale. Exactly the same on a quick glance but with the opposite color scheme. So brown where the white is and white where the brown is. Mine is 55” wide. Thank you for all of the time you took to look into this and provide links.
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