Sigillum Ducatuum Curlandiae

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by terry5732, Jul 19, 2018.

  1. terry5732

    terry5732 Well-Known Member

    Pier 1 or something else. Looks like silver, smells like old brass.
    pier 001.JPG pier 003.JPG pier 006.JPG
    2-1/2" across the bottom
     
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  2. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Not sure why the seal of the Duke of Courland would have ER in the center, unless it stands for something other than Elizabeth Regina. Looks concocted altogether.
    Edit: Still think it looks concocted but realize it is not ER, FR, maybe, but would still be somebody Rex.
     
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  3. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

  4. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

    It has a lobster and a ship (Viking?) on top, and another animal. Can you show pictures of that part?
     
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  5. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    The whole thing is a hodgepodge of crudely outlined heraldic symbols with a very loose resemblance to the Courland coat of arms. The lobster is probably meant for a zodiac sign. You would think Scorpio, but I have seen what I thought was the scorpion in Renaissance art described, more than once, as standing for Cancer, generally indicating the sign under which some noble owner was born.

    The antlered animal on the matrix looks more like a moose than like the deer on the seal itself. The other beast could be a wolf. The lions do not have the double tails of the actual arms & look more like poodles to me.
     
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  6. anundverkaufen

    anundverkaufen Bird Feeder

  7. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    upload_2018-7-19_17-41-23.png
    upload_2018-7-19_17-45-39.png So FR will just be Friedrich then.
     
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  8. Hollyblue

    Hollyblue Well-Known Member

    Looks like a cast Renaissance festival fantasy item,a real wax stamp would have been hand engraved with much better quality.
     
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  9. terry5732

    terry5732 Well-Known Member

    pier 004.JPG pier 005.JPG pier 007.JPG
    Apparently it is actually silver
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
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  10. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    JMHO.
    German Historismus item. ~1850 - ~1914.
    although the modern post-Napoleonic Germany never had any parts of the State of the Teutonic Order under their rule, the interest in everything "German" started to rise into unhealthy heights - especially after the war of 1870 - 71 against France.
    the Historismus items were made for a wealthy layer of society and are often mistaken for much longer.
     
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  11. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    "the Historismus items were made for a wealthy layer of society and are often mistaken for much "older", of course.
     
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  12. terry5732

    terry5732 Well-Known Member

    The sale was run by several elderly Latvian ladies. They had other less interesting things from 'home'.
     
  13. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    This fits. Repro, national pride item. The Duchy of Courland is now part of Latvia.
     
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  14. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    Kurland was at some point partly Swedish; the lobster is probably a hint towards the wide-spread merchant fleet that dealt with all possible European countries (e.g. Portugal). the moose is certainly a hint to the only surviving jungles in Europe - Bialowieza National Park etc..
    furthermore Kurland tried to found colonies in Africa and somewhere in the southsea but was stopped by England and other bullies.
     
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