Silver chafing dish sort of thing - Unknown mark

Picked up two of these things that are kind of like a chafing dish but with flat tops. The top lifts off and there is an indentation for a can of Sterno to fit. They are about 10" diameter and stand just under 4". Both the top and bottoms are marked the same. It is a cricket with the word DOUBLE over it and the letters HK below. Above this is the number 10 with another tiny mark with a dot under it. The tiny mark may be a Z but might not be a letter at all. Here is a pic of the best of the marks. Sorry, I couldn't get any more clear.

The other interesting feature to these is that they have a flat blob of brass or gold on the bottom of each foot. Any ideas about these? I thought the HK might stand for Hong Kong but am not sure. I have no illusion that these are solid silver but it would be incredible if they are. They were at the thrift store so I should be able to make some money even if they are plated.




Someone else inquired about this mark in 2005 but didn't get a response.

http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6177

 

I'm surprised that query got not a single reply. Not even a "Sorry, can't help."

If I saw this in person, I would assume these were French silverplate marks because the cartouche shape is right and that 10 would represent the plating quantity. I tried to see if there was an HK with grasshopper (or cricket) maker's mark in the French silversmiths list on silvercollection.it, but had no luck. Of course that may simply mean that your mark isn't French. But since that list is for smiths of solid silver items, it may simply be a case of a plater who did not work in solid silver.

 

Baker, I'm surprised also. Yes, these marks are for French silver plate. At the moment am traveling so don't have Tardy with me. BTW, that is a combination of 2 marks. The top mark is the 10 with something small high and to the right. It could be small G or Gr over a dot standing for 10 grams. Then again it may be a X. Anyhow, the 10 stands for the thickness of the silverplate. The rectangle has the maker's initials. French silverplate maker's mark are in rectangles while the maker's marks of French equivalent to sterling are in diamonds. The HK is the maker's initials. As I don't have Tardy with me I can't tell you what Double and the cricket represent. Following is a link to a French silverplate plateau. It has the same 10 mark and a rectangle/square mark: Double, cricket, and the initials CB for Charles Balaine.

http://www.rauantiques.com/item/Fre...omise-Plateau-by-Charles-Balaine.30-0974.html

I found it hard to see the pic of the marks on my iPad because it is a slide show. I was able to copy paste the marks pic.

--- Susan

 

Thanks to both of you! Pretty clear that you are correct based on these marks shown. The insect and initials are different but the format and everything else is the same. While it would be nice to know the maker, I don't think it necessary to sell these. These were something I just thought I would take a chance on. Any idea of what they are really called? Any kind of time-frame for them?

 

I'm not sure when it was made....but the name is correct......
or so this says....

https://en.expertissim.com/silver/christofle-silver-plated-chafing-dish-late-19th-century-12227616

 

It might be considered a grasshopper rather than a cricket. The French used to use bigornes in their silver markings, but probably only on their sterling equivalents. The bigornes were anvil shape marks used for some sort of anti-fraud marks. Anyways, the bigornes consisted of 7 or 8 insects of which the grasshopper was one. This is not a bigorne.
http://www.silvercollection.it/dictionarybigorne.html

I suspect the cricket/grasshopper relates to the size of the item or the province the maker was located? That there was a difference between your insect and that on the plateau, i didn't notice. One could be a cricket and the other some creepy crawly.

>time-frame<

Hmmmm.... They were dating that plateau to what, the mid 1800s? They probably arrived at that time-frame by knowing something about the maker. I don't know enough abouf French marks to determine a timeframe without Tardy at my elbow. I found mention of the use of the word "Double" on French silverplate. It seems back when it was mandated by some sort of French ordinance that the maker's marks on silverplate must be in a square as opposed to a diamond shape for sterling ****and*** silverplate must have the word "Double." Nowww the references only said when it was mandated and gave no info if still required. Nowww let's see if I can find the references. Found a couple. The 1st full paragraph, p. 18 of the book. BTW, started 1797:

https://books.google.com/books?id=lHUYAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=french+silverplate+double+mark&source=bl&ots=bvOi6Sulvo&sig=hDw13fPBqVsBl9U5_t160MGTp5E&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9icvVb_cHMmWsAWf84HACQ&ved=0CDYQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=french silverplate double mark&f=false

The following is about silver in French daguerreotypes saying the word double was required, p. 49:
https://books.google.com/books?id=FLTyvuWX6MMC&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=french+silverplate+double+mark&source=bl&ots=U9YzK3Uz40&sig=z44le4zpLpNAC8FG3KJSxexeX60&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9icvVb_cHMmWsAWf84HACQ&ved=0CEAQ6AEwCw#v=onepage&q=french silverplate double mark&f=false

It would have been better all the way around if this was sterling! It would enrich your pockets and probably be easier to date with the hallmarkings. As to what to call it, I don't know at the this time.

--- Susan

 

Thanks for the knowledge and research. Very much appreciated and spot-on as usual. I have found some of these called warming plates or trays as well as chafing dishes. Also a few referred to as a chauffe-plat. Probably an appropriate name for them since these are French.

Just now searching this term, I found a matching double burner oval version attributed to Henry Kindberg.

http://www.proantic.com/display.php?mode=obj&id=44541

More searching comes up with dates of 1824-1838 for him. Also found a couple pieces with the same mark. Looks like the letter over the dot is an E. This link has a large pic of a worn mark but you can see the E. You have to go to the pic of the bottom and enlarge to see the inset with the mark.

https://en.expertissim.com/silver/plated-ware-tray-by-henry-kindberg-o12131616.html

 

Here is the best pic yet of the mark. Found on a pair of candlesticks.

 

Very interesting reference finds, Susan!

Way to go, Brad! Hard to believe that these were at the thrift store, although given the obscurity of the marks, I guess none of us should be surprised. I hope they do very well for you!

 

hey brad....it takes a village !
Nice find !!

 

I just bought these on a hunch. Mine are in amazingly good condition with no loss of plating that I can find other than on the bottom of the feet. They have been polished fairly recently but could use a little touch up on the bottom parts. I had no idea that these were this old. I guess a can of Sterno was not meant for the depression in the bottom..... LOL! In searching these, I can find none with burners from this time period so I guess it doesn't matter that mine don't have any. It is also pretty amazing that these have remained together all these years. I am not going to get rich from these but they should do much better than most silver plate.

 

Personally, wouldn't call this a chafing dish, it's a warming stand that could be used with a chafing dish, the French 'chauffe-plat', meaning a hot-plate is appropriate. A 1911 Ercuis catalog just calls it a warmer, with this type stand noted as using a bougie-box rather than the spirit-burner noted on the more open stands.

~Cheryl

 

Thanks! Just learned something new ...... Bougie-box!

 

Hi VeryBrad,

I have a similar story as you. I found two of these chaffing dishes at the thrift store and bought them on a hunch. Mine are missing the plate insert (salver?) but come with the bottom and the dome tops. Mine have also been stripped of the silver plating (gasp), but they are quite glorious with just the copper finish.

I have a few questions for you though: Did you ever sell yours? If so, how much did you manage to get? If it has yet to sell, how much are you asking for it? I ask because I am trying to price mine.

Also, and probably most importantly, I was wondering if you found out anything on Henry Kindberg. I would like to know more about his background and I have been unsuccessful in my searches online. If you don't have any information on him, could you--or anyone else--recommend a place where I can ask an expert for information on him? (Preferably a French silver expert...I was thinking of trying to find a museum in France that specialized in silver, but given that I don't speak French, I felt overwhelmed. I'd still like to know a good French Silver Museum though!)

 

I sold my pair for $149.00 on ebay with a BIN listing with best offer. I had tried to sell them at double that at first, eventually listing at $199.00 with best offer. Took quite awhile to sell and the buyer was very pleased to find them. I didn't find out any more about Kindberg and didn't think it necessary to sell them.

 

Thanks for the info. I think you were right to try and sell them at a higher price. Then again, the economy was worse than we are right now.

Though, I also note that yours were missing the dome tops. That's a tragic loss. Conversely, mine have the dome tops and are missing the salver plates (the flat tray insert). Mine is also missing the silverplate. However, despite the loss of silverplate, they are pretty spectacular as just copper pieces. Here are what mine look like. Maybe I should try selling them someplace other than eBay...