Featured Spanish tile. Crest belongs to?

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by J Dagger, May 13, 2024.

  1. J Dagger

    J Dagger Well-Known Member

    Anyone know who this crest belongs/belonged to? Anyone doubt it’s original to the 17th or 18th century? It’s 8” square and nearly 2” thick. Very heavy. The front side didn’t strike me as for sure being that old when I first saw it. I thought it could be but wasn’t convinced. The backside and it being so thick looks pretty convincing though. 888B673E-748F-456C-A5ED-389E2D6979AB.jpeg 8647816F-2733-4D5F-B96B-EF772DF804F4.jpeg
     
  2. mmarco102

    mmarco102 Well-Known Member

    The faces on the front do not come across as being a serious crest. Overall drawing is a bit primitive as being hand drawn by a novice. My only thoughts regarding the back is they appear to be modern day finishing nails. Just seems home made. Sorry for being negative, I hope I am wrong, as I often am.
     
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  3. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

  4. charlie cheswick

    charlie cheswick Well-Known Member

    looks like it is based on something, and trying to look old, but pure as driven snow from here
     
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  5. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    It looked like a modern interpretation to my eye too but it's identical (except for a blue border?) to the museum example.

    Debora
     
  6. J Dagger

    J Dagger Well-Known Member

    I had somewhat similar concerns about the artwork. I figure much old tile art is a bit on the primitive side to start with but something seemed a little off to me at first. The back and construction started convincing me otherwise. The frame definitely isn’t trying to of the same age as the tile. Just a semi-contemporary way to display it.
     
  7. charlie cheswick

    charlie cheswick Well-Known Member

    yeah, done in the same style/technique as the older types. but imo reproduction
     
  8. J Dagger

    J Dagger Well-Known Member

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  9. J Dagger

    J Dagger Well-Known Member

    How white and unsullied it is was what bothered me more than anything. It doesn’t make sense to me to make a repro 2” thick but I suppose it’s possible.
     
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  10. charlie cheswick

    charlie cheswick Well-Known Member

    i've seen the same with some modern delft tiles, really thick and made with the same techniques. not necessarily made to fool, just to get a similar look
     
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  11. charlie cheswick

    charlie cheswick Well-Known Member

    the ones in the link that deb provided are probably even thinner than yours.
    so they might have even over did the thickness :)
     
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  12. mmarco102

    mmarco102 Well-Known Member

    Located the museum from Debora’s image and found the inventory numbers mentioned. If correct inventory numbers CE1/01487 and 01491 yours being the latter number, your crest should belong to the “Palace of the counts of Villaoquina, 1750’ish”.


    IMG_3705.jpeg

    Translation

    IMG_3707.jpeg

    MUSEO NACIONAL DE CERÁMICA Y ARTES SUNTUARIAS “GONZÁLEZ MARTÍ”
    go to page #9: https://www.cultura.gob.es/mncerami...0-2d96561991fb/dossier-de-prensa-talavera.pdf

    thank you Deb, :cool:
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2024
  13. charlie cheswick

    charlie cheswick Well-Known Member

    i very much doubt it

    but probably a repro from that period ;)
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2024
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  14. Rogusi

    Rogusi Member

    I think it could be original based on surface, look of painting and the way the back looks like it was pulled. But would not put my hands in the fire, could be a repro.

    They were not very protected until some years ago, now a lot of attention is put on historical tiles and Lisbon (where I grew up) even has a dedicated police unit to tile theft. Not saying this in regards to yours J Dagger, probably has been out of the country for a long time. Just to say and share how they are now seen as cultural elements to be protected but weren't that way for a long time so the possibility it does come from a palace is not insane.
     
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  15. mmarco102

    mmarco102 Well-Known Member

    not saying it is or it isn’t, just identifying the crest for dagger. Real or repo at this point is above my pay grade. But hope it is authentic.
     
  16. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Good work going through museum catalog to find, @mmarco102. I did a quick search and couldn't. They give it a later date -- 1750.

    Debora
     
  17. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    This is the only palace I could find for the Conde de Villaoquino. They owned it sometime after it was built until 1950. In the small village of Zurbano in the Basque Country. Not at all sure this has any connection with tile.

    https://intranet.pogmacva.com/en/obras/75846

    Debora

    dca4288d993acb5902a7ed2fe8b0fdaa3b099914.jpg
     
  18. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

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  19. charlie cheswick

    charlie cheswick Well-Known Member

    sorry mate, read that wrong. thought you were stating it was from that period
    one too many last night :hungover:
     
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  20. J Dagger

    J Dagger Well-Known Member

    Thanks so much Marco & Deb for the killer research. Incredible that the history of the Order of Calatrava goes back so far. All this information gives me enough of an idea of what I might have that I can make an educated decision on keeping it or if I’m selling it what route to go with it. I love tiles for some reason and grab them whenever I can. I scored this one for $10 so even if it’s a good repro I’ll be more than fine. There is a hotel in Cusco that uses this crest on their website. Maybe if I contact them they will know more. Or maybe there’s a clue in the fact they use it to begin with. I mean obviously the Spanish were there but maybe there’s more of a clue. Looks like Cusco was the last holdout of the Incas and finally conquered by the conquistadors in 1537. Maybe the Calatrava were there!?
     
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